By the end of the century, Muslims could outnumber Christians for the first time in history, according to a report released by the Pew Research Center.
“Another way of thinking about it is Christianity had a seven-century head-start on Islam, and Islam is finally catching up,” says Alan Cooperman, the director of religion research at Pew.
Christianity is currently the world’s largest religion, making up a third of the world’s population with 2.2 billion adherents. Pew research shows that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The religious group will make up 30 percent of the world’s population by 2050, compared to just 23 percent of the population in 2010. That means the number of Muslims in the world will nearly equal the number of Christians by 2050.
If Islam’s growth spurt continues, Pew data shows, Muslims could outnumber Christians soon after the year 2070.
That’s not to say that the total number of Christians is decreasing; Christianity’s growth rate is just not as fast as Islam’s. While the number of Christians will increase from about 2.1 billion to 2.9 billion by 2050, Muslims will jump from 1.6 billion to 2.8 billion.
This growth has to do with the relatively young age of the Muslim population as well as high fertility rates. Other religious groups have aging populations. Among Buddhists, for example, half of adherents are older than 30 and the average birth rate is 1.6 children. By contrast, in 2010, a third of the Muslim population was under 15. What’s more, each Muslim woman has an average of 3.1 children, while the average for Christian women is 2.7.
The Pew research revealed two other interesting shifts in world religious perspectives, Cooperman says.
Atheists, agnostics and those who do not affiliate with religion will make up a smaller percentage of the world’s total population by 2050 — even though the group is growing in the U.S. and Europe. The decline is primarily because those who are unaffiliated religiously have low fertility rates, with women bearing an average of 1.7 children in their lifetime.
Between now and 2050, the hub of Christianity will also shift — from Europe to sub-Saharan Africa. As of 2010, the majority of the Christian population — 25.5 percent — lived in Europe, but sub-Saharan Africa will become home to nearly 40 percent of the world’s Christians by 2050. Fertility rates are also behind this change. Christians living in sub-Saharan African have the highest fertility rates among Christians worldwide: Each woman has, on average, 4.4 children.
Cooperman emphasizes that a lot could change between now and 2050.
“We’re not saying that this will happen; it’s if current patterns and trends continue,” Cooperman says. “We do not know what’s going to happen in the future. There could be war, revolution, famine, disease. These are things no one can predict and that could change the numbers.”
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
Bryan Patterson's Faithworks 
The decline is primarily because those who are unaffiliated religiously have low fertility rates, with women bearing an average of 1.7 children in their lifetime.
So the BELIEVERS and followers of religions are those over populating the planet.
So nice of them to think about the future “NOT”
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😦
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Charity organisations are not going to run themselves CB 🙂
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This looks like an interesting topic.
I did some maths of my own. I am sure people will point out any error I did.
I wanted to first get births per 1000 population of Muslims. I found it here. It is relatively old but I would argue the birth rate has probably gone down since due to the collateral damage due to war on terror.
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=3GJdC3Zvs7cC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=muslim+births+per+1000&source=bl&ots=a7KXVzGHFG&sig=oe_6_BxvRVVRFgs6h0zznhhUBoY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit0cSZ2ILKAhVl4qYKHVzzADMQ6AEIQTAH#v=onepage&q=muslim%20births%20per%201000&f=false
It states the birth rate is (rounding off) 34 babies per 1000 and death rate is 14 per 1000. Net 20 per 1000.
So from this we can roughly work out how many Muslims each year are born.
(1.6 billion * 20)/ 1000 = 32 million Muslims
In the pew figures Christians are having 15% less babies than Muslims. (2.7 vrs 3.1)
So we can roughly work out how many Christians are born.
Birth rate (20 *0.85) = 17 Christians born per 1000.
So from this we can roughly work out how many Christians each year are born.
(2.2 billion * 17)/ 1000 = 37 million Christians
So I don’t understand how birth rate is a factor when it is only 15% more ? From my calculations more Christians are being born than Muslims ?
I am now declaring the 2016 Religious Forecast games open.
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Interesting as the book shows and suggests birth rates in some Arabic countries is slowing down or declining. Throw in Infant mortality, war and starvation it can be difficult to get an accurate figure as Pew is trying to do.
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Why would the war on terror affect birth rate ? Are there weapons that cause infertility?
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Are there weapons that cause infertility?
Actually there are. Lots of chemical weapons do that. Probably most weapons in one way or another. Hard to give birth if you’re killed.
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Also war is not the most romantic of times. No baby boom during a war
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Hindus have about 950 million followers — about 14% of the world’s population. It is the dominant religion in India, Nepal, and among the Tamils in Sri Lanka.
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2010: the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life estimated over 67 million Christians in China, of which 35 million “independent” Protestants, 23 million Three-Self Protestants, 9 million Catholics and 20,000 Orthodox Christians.
Prof Yang, a leading expert on religion in China, believes that number will swell to around 160 million by 2025.
Although some believe the number currently is already over 100 million.
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Where is Christianity growing the fastest? The Center for the Study of Global Christianity, based at Gordon Conwell Seminary, published In June 2013 an excellent report regarding Christianity in its Global Context. The full report can be found online at http://www.globalchristianity.org/globalcontext. From this report I identified the top 20 countries that have the highest percentage Christianity Average Annual Growth Rate (AAGR). They are listed in Table 1. I have also calculated the number of years for the number of Christians to double, based on the Average Annual Growth Rate.
What’s happening in these countries?
Are you surprised to see that 19 of the countries in the top 20 are in Asia and Africa
Did you notice 11 countries on the top 20 list are Muslim majority countries?
Did you catch that not a single country from Europe, Northern America or Latin America makes the top 20 list?
Did you notice the world’s newest country, South Sudan? South Sudan became an independent country in July 2011, separating from the Muslim majority of Northern Sudan.
Did you see that highest Christian growth rates are found among all major non-Christian religious groups: Hindus, Non-Religious, Buddhists, Muslims and Ethno-religionists (Benin and South Sudan)
Did you observe that the majority of the top 20 countries are clustered in three areas: Eastern Asia, Western Africa and the Arabian Peninsula.
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Germany’s Muslim population is set to skyrocket by more than 700,000 in 2015, pushing the total number of Muslims in the country to nearly 6 million for the first time.
The surge in Germany’s Muslim population — propelled by a wave of migration unprecedented since the Second World War — represents a demographic shift of epic proportions, one that critics of the country’s open-door immigration policy warn will change the face of Germany forever.
At a press conference on August 19, German Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière revealed that a record 800,000 migrants and refugees — the equivalent of nearly one percent of Germany’s total population — are expected to arrive in Germany in 2015, a four-fold increase over 2014. He said that 83,000 migrants had arrived in July alone, and that the figure for August would be higher still…..
In addition to security concerns (Islamic radicals are almost certainly trying to enter Germany disguised as refugees), they say, the surge in Muslim immigration will accelerate the Islamization of Germany, a process that is already well under way.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Germany. This is evidenced by the fact that an increasing number of churches in Germany are being converted into mosques, some of which are publicly sounding calls to prayer (the adhan) from outdoor loudspeaker systems. The increase is such that some neighborhoods in Germany evoke the sights and sounds of the Muslim Middle East.
Islamic Sharia law is advancing rapidly throughout Germany, with Sharia courts now operating in all of Germany’s big cities. This “parallel justice system” is undermining the rule of law in Germany, experts warn, but government officials are “powerless” to do anything about it. At the same time, German judges are increasingly referring and deferring to Sharia law in German law courts.
Polygamy, although illegal under German law, is commonplace among Muslims in all major German cities. In Berlin, for example, it is estimated that fully one-third of the Muslim men living in the Neukölln district of the city have two or more wives.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6423/germany-muslim-demographic
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“I”n Berlin, for example, it is estimated that fully one-third of the Muslim men living in the Neukölln district of the city have two or more wives.”
Based on what facts or evidence? The author of this article provides neither.
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Whether wives are simultaneous or consecutive makes a big difference to particular relationships, but perhaps not to birthrate.
And here we have increasing re-partnering. A friend has one child from first relationship, one child from second, and two from third.
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Strewth:
“Whether wives are simultaneous or consecutive makes a big difference…’
It sure does, whether in a practical or statistical sense. Whatever the context, the “one third” claim is (a) unsupported and (b) suspect (given the source).
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Stu, the article has about 20 or more hyperlinks you can follow. These lead to other articles and will provide you with the answers to your questions. If you indeed read the article you would have seen the hyperlinks and the one you are after is contained within.
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Right wing????
Dom and Stu you are just making it up as you go. If you actually read the survey results you would know. You both look pretty silly now.
The study, entitled, Religion Monitor 2013: Religiousness and Cohesion in Germany (now a PDF in English) was produced by the Bertelsmann Foundation, one of the most influential think tanks and lobbying groups in Europe, and a strong proponent of “progressive” causes such as multiculturalism and global governance.
It is a lefty publication, not right wing at all.
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Alexie:
“Stu, the article has about 20 or more hyperlinks you can follow.”
I’m adept at following hyperlinks. None of the “20 or more” links provide any evidence to support the “two thirds” assertion, especially the hyperlink associated with that particular assertion.
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Did you follow the obvious one Stu??
No, did not think so.
Here is some info from page 5 of the survey
Globalization and its impact on private and professional contexts are giving rise to a search for values and guiding principles within society. Internatio nal understanding that goes beyond political and language barriers – which numerous public gures have called for – must also remain cognizant of the world’s diverse historical, cultural and religious roots. A person’s religious beliefs in particular determine his or her personal philosophy and actions to a degree that should not be underestimated.
To get a better idea of the role religion and faith play in modern life, the Bertelsmann Stiftung’s Religion Monitor interviewed over 21,000 people from 21 countries around the globe. Representing millions of others, the survey’s respondents discussed their thoughts and beliefs, their concep tions of God, their values and numerous other aspects of their innermost lives. The survey’s ndings are more than just statistics; they represent the many individuals who were willing to talk about their religious practices, world views and considerations of life’s larger meanings. The Religion Moni tor thus provides us with an intimate look at the world’s religions and, as a result, allows us a better understanding of the globe’s diverse cultures.
Through its survey – carried out on each continent in a standardized manner – the Religion Monitor reveals in impressive fashion the degree to which the
globe’s religions are in fact comparable. Clearly, despite their many centuries of divergent development and their resulting di erences, the world’s faiths are similar in a multitude of ways, both in terms of structure and content.
With this brochure, the Bertelsmann Stiftung would like to introduce you to select ndings from its Religion Monitor. Both the Bertelsmann Stiftung and I, personally, hope that the information it o ers will help adherents of all religions better understand each other and, consequently, help increase tolerance among people everywhere
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“Here is some info from page 5 of the survey,”
That would be fantastic, except nothing on page 5 tells us anything about “Muslim men living in the Neukölln district of the city have two or more wives.”
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“It is a lefty publication, not right wing at all.”
Really? Based on what facts or evidence?
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Right wing????
Just check what I said Alexie. I said if you google you will find that statement is used by a lot of right wing sites.
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Actually on further investigation I found the gatestone institute has a hidden agenda.
Upon Wilders’s arrival in New York, a little-known think tank called the Gatestone Institute rolled out the red carpet for him. On April 30, before a select crowd that according to Gatestone’s website had paid $10,000 a head, he held forth on the persecution he had endured during his recent trial for incitement to hatred and discrimination. “This charade that happened in the Netherlands for the last few years could not have happened in your great country
In this link they are referred to as the sugar mama of anti Muslim hate.
http://www.thenation.com/article/sugar-mama-anti-muslim-hate/
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Lefty and Dom
It is widely known many Muslim immigrants (and their descendants) enter into polygamous marriages in Europe. It occurs in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Britain, and Germany. The UK is bringing about legalizing polygamy via the existing sharia court system. Understand it is currently the sharia courts, not proposed.
The sharia-based polygamy in Germany, with a focus on Kurdish Muslims in the Neukölln district of Berlin, have been interviewed and the government knows this.
It all began in 2004 At the end of March, the Higher Administrative Court of Rhineland-Palatinate decreed an Iraqi man’s second wife is also entitled to stay – an exception to German law. Refugees with two wives in Germany: Both can get social assistance.
“The “Six Country Immigrant Integration Comparative Survey“—a five-year study of Moroccan and Turkish immigrants in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland and Sweden—was published on December 11 by the WZB Berlin Social Science Center, one of the largest social science research institutes in Europe.
According to the study (German and English), which was funded by the German government, two thirds (65%) of the Muslims interviewed say Islamic Sharia law is more important to them than the laws of the country in which they live. Three quarters (75%) of the respondents hold the opinion that there is only one legitimate interpretation of the Koran, which should apply to all Muslims, and nearly 60% of Muslims believe their community should return to “Islamic roots.”
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Alexie.
“It is widely known many Muslim immigrants (and their descendants) enter into polygamous marriages in Europe.”
No. You made a specific claim (via cutting and pasting) that was not backed up with any evidence. Just cutting pasting irrelevant bits from the same site does not constitute evidence.
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Dom just cut an pasted about the weather. Did not see you whine about it. Hmm, maybe as a left progressive green you must be biased. But of course like CB, nothing can be proven, we do not really exist without proof. You are just upset you cannot research and find the information yourself.
Mind you polygamy is in law in Germany and actually occurs across Europe. But you keep your head in the sand.
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“You are just upset you cannot research and find the information yourself.”
You made the claim, Alexie. It’s not up to me to do your research for you.
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Dom just cut an pasted about the weather. Did not see you whine about it.
You are comparing statements about the weather to unsupported estimations by an institute that fosters and bank rolls Muslim hate ?
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Classic Dom
“Actually on further investigation I found the gatestone institute has a hidden agenda.”
A hidden agenda which is not so hidden as you found one article and cut and paste it. No whining about it from stu though! It is about the weather, but no evidence but lots of bias.
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Hey Dom, you have missed the obvious. They article, not myself, mentioned honestly that it was “estimated”.
Then you and Stu make a big deal about the figure when in fact it is just an estimate. Nothing hidden, no conspiracy and actually part of a background of data across Europe, from a survey of left wing group. But of course they must be right wing because you and Stu day so.
You mention the weather as a reason for 5% polygamy and “hidden agendas” that you know about from one article.
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Alexie.
“A hidden agenda which is not so hidden as you found one article and cut and paste it.”
At least Dom provided an original source as a response. Your cut and paste provides no source for the statistics it relies on.
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Alexie.
“Then you and Stu make a big deal about the figure when in fact it is just an estimate.”
An estimate based on what facts or evidence?
Despite asking multiple times and looking at all the links you provided, there is nothing to support your cut and paste assertion:
“that that fully one-third of the Muslim men living in the Neukölln district of the city have two or more wives.”
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Classic Dom
Sorry I think you misspelt it. Should it be Classy ?
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It is estimated that one third have more than one wife. You can throw figures around when it is estimated. If you do a google on it, it is mostly used in right wing web sites. Maybe if it is estimated enough it becomes true. 🙂
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The Gladstone Institute certainly seems to fit that characterisation, Dom. Stats can be abused, but this site is riddled with no stats other than those which exist in the minds of its contributors.
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Stu, making things up again. There are so many hyperlinks and so many sources. You are riddled with silly comments, lack of reading, rushing into comments without thought and just trying to prove a point with no evidence of your own. Looking silly again.
The study, entitled, Religion Monitor 2013: Religiousness and Cohesion in Germany (currently available only in German) was produced by the Bertelsmann Foundation, one of the most influential think tanks and lobbying groups in Europe, and a strong proponent of “progressive” causes such as multiculturalism and global governance.
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“Stu, making things up again. There are so many hyperlinks and so many sources.”
Well, that makes it true then.
“The study, entitled, Religion Monitor 2013: Religiousness and Cohesion in Germany…”
Show me the page in that study that claims that “fully one-third of the Muslim men living in the Neukölln district of the city have two or more wives.”
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In this publication on the study of polygamy it states higher rates of polygamy occur in under developed tropical countries due to three factors;
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200902/the-wide-world-polygamy-we-hate-it-others-love-it
1. Scarcity of males (apparently more males die when public health facilities are poor)
2. Cold winters need more help from husband to raise children
3. Urban areas difficult to raise more kids due to drain on resources.
Now tropical countries like Jordan and Pakistan have a 5% polygamy rate. So for a cold, developed country like Germany to experience 33% which is 6 times higher than a country where it is legal and conditions favour polygamy; is hard to believe.
In the end in Islam polygamy is not encouraged or seen as a right. It is a solution that can be provided where needed.
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Wow! That is over reaching Dom. 5% in a warm climate so it must be the weather.
Germany has far more money, many muslims can then have more than one wife. IN the countries you mentioned high illiteracy and poverty mean less chance to have more than one wife. As you would know Dom, the koran states you can have more than one wife as long as you can support them. Me thinks you are being sneaky.
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Wow! That is over reaching Dom. 5% in a warm climate so it must be the weather.
You missed the point again please reread.
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the koran states you can have more than one wife as long as you can support them
Actually it states you can have more than one wife if you treat them all equally, if not then only one.
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A Religious Forecast For 2050: Atheism Is Down, Islam Is Rising.
So there is a race to ever increase over populating the planet.
How lovely !!
And I suppose you expect and demand SCIENCE to come to the rescue .
And poor Bryan was putting some blame on girls going shopping.
The evil consumer society!
Perspective Time !
Homo Sapiens are the number one consumable and the value is decreasing every second.
There is a growing industry that could never exceed the demand for it.
And it is not food !
It is weapons to harm homo sapiens
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A Religious Forecast For 2050: Atheism Is Down, Islam Is Rising
Really ??
So the “”ASSUMPTION”” is those who don,t follow a religion only come about as the descendants of those who don,t follow a religion.
MMMMMM !
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No wrong again. that’s not anyone assumption. Except perhaps yours CB.
MMMMMM!
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The decline is “PRIMARILY”because those who are unaffiliated religiously have low fertility rates, with women bearing an average of 1.7 children in their lifetime.
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So all atheists have atheist children? And all Christians have children who become Christians? Nope.
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So Bryan what do you prefer ??
More independent thought not following anyone or iodizing anyone.
More regimented thought and following like sheep those at the top no matter what cause.
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Iodizing? Independent thought is great. But I don’t think you are really an independent thinker CB. More a follower.
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In a recent survey conducted by AlJazeera.net, the website for the Al Jazeera Arabic television channel, respondents overwhelmingly support the Islamic State terrorist group, with 81% voting “YES” on whether they approved of ISIS’s conquests in the region.
The poll, which asked in Arabic, “Do you support the organizing victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has generated over 38,000 responses thus far, with only 19% of respondents voting “NO” to supporting ISIS.
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Pew poll: Between 63 million and 287 million ISIS supporters in just 11 countries
By Sierra Rayne
American Thinker
A new poll by the Pew Research Center reveals significant levels of support for ISIS within the Muslim world. In 11 representative nation-states, up to 14 percent of the population has a favorable opinion of ISIS, and upwards of 62 percent “don’t know” whether or not they have a favorable opinion of the Islamist group.
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Muslim leaders including the Grand Mufti of Australia back fatwa against Islamic State
Australia’s leading imams have backed a fatwa against the Islamic State terrorist group, warning that any support for the group contradicts Islamic teachings.
In a New Year message to the nation’s Muslim community, the Grand Mufti of Australia together with prominent imams from NSW and Victoria have given their religious opinions and urged congregations, particularly the youth, to listen to their religious leaders.
The Grand Mufti, Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohammed, who is the leading representative of Australia’s Sunni Islamic scholars, said “most Islamic Legal Circles and Fatwa Boards have condemned ISIS, declaring that Islam is innocent of all these barbaric actions despite ISIS using the term Islamic in its name. The term ‘Islamic State’ has been usurped by ISIS,” he said, using one of several acronyms for IS.
“We stand with all organisations that have condemned ISIS and declared innocence from its inhumane actions.
“Locally we would like to bring to the attention of our youth, and those who lead them, that ISIS is a trick designed to prey on youth, either by their being killed or locked up in prison. We doubt the origins of ISIS because since it was established it has not done one thing for the benefit of Islam and Muslims. Rather its actions and barbaric acts have been against the way of God,” he said.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/muslim-leaders-including-the-grand-mufti-of-australia-back-fatwa-against-isis-20160101-glxtbp.html#ixzz3wA5cVgHP
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Dr Mohamed’s comments come as Muslim leaders around the world, including 70,000 clerics in India, have issued a fatwa against terrorist groups including ISIS and after the Australian National Imams Consultative Forum released a document, Australian Muslim perspective on some key contemporary concerns, addressing religious issues raised by IS’s activities and recruitment.
The document examines dozens of issues from citizenship in Australia and Islam, to jihad, and makes statements backed by more than 20 Australian imams against slavery, suicide, and foreign fighting. It bluntly states that the so-called caliphate in Syria and Iraq, as proclaimed by IS is not legitimate and therefore Australian Muslims have no obligation to follow its dictates.
Sheikh Mohamadu Saleem, of the Board of Imams in Victoria, also had a New Year message for the community, saying that violent extremism is neither religious nor Islamic.
“We condemn and deplore ISIS’s violent propaganda that is perpetrated against innocent civilians in the name of Islam as the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: ‘Harm is neither inflicted nor tolerated in Islam.'”
He said that “ISIS is trying to justify ‘violence against innocent civilians’ by interpreting texts of the Koran and hadiths, statements of Muhammad ‘cherry-picked and out of context’ to suit their violent actions. Majority of the leading scholars and Islamic organisations have vehemently denounced ISIS for its illegitimate and misleading propaganda.”
Sheikh Yahya Safi, the imam at Australia’s biggest mosque in Lakemba, said: “I stand with the Islamic scholars from around the world who have condemned the actions of ISIS that contradict the teachings of Islam and I have stressed this on many occasions, especially in my Friday sermons.”
Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilali, the former grand mufti of Australia, has also warned that IS is like a trap that had tricked people and countries.
“Joining them is a type of madness that does not concord with the teachings of any religion. I warn the Muslim youths from all over the world against joining ISIS or supporting them in any way,” Sheikh Hilali said.
“Joining such a group or supporting it contradicts the Islamic teachings 100 per cent, because this group is clear in breach of the Islamic teachings.”
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People don’t seem to care about what the majority of Islamic leaders say Bryan they’ll just go with what people who are heavily affected by the war on terror think. The truth will come out in the end. 🙂
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Breaking news … yet again
Australia’s leading imams have backed a fatwa against the Islamic State terrorist group, warning that any support for the group contradicts Islamic teachings.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/muslim-leaders-including-the-grand-mufti-of-australia-back-fatwa-against-isis-20160101-glxtbp.html#ixzz3wAV2DeB1
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook
http://www.theage.com.au/national/muslim-leaders-including-the-grand-mufti-of-australia-back-fatwa-against-isis-20160101-glxtbp.html
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It is good they are objecting to ISIS, unfortunately a large minority of muslims support ISIS. The leaders are losing control and muslim governments too. Saudi Arabia condones, supports and feeds terror with its Wahabbi ideology. They have taken little if any refugees while Europe and other western countries take millions.
When more action is taken will be when the world takes Islam and its words of condemnation against ISIS as true. Not just Isis but Boko haram, El Shabbab, Hamas and other terror groups. Not just in the Middle east but now in countries all around the world.
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Saudi Arabia condones, supports and feeds terror with its Wahabbi ideology. They have taken little if any refugees while Europe and other western countries take millions.
More misinformation
Actually Saudi Arabia has taken in 500,000. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE are not parties to any of the UN protocols on refugees, and so through this technicality, they, along with most of their refugees, are excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms.
Somehow, even in today’s “enlightened” age where information on human rights is democratized and widely disseminated, the complete absence of Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia is more plausible than the idea of human misinterpretation of statistics. It’s an inconvenient truth that needs to be addressed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-doanvo/europes-crisis-refugees_b_8175924.html?ir=Australia
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More misinformation. sigh
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE are not parties to any of the UN protocols on refugees, and so through this technicality, they, along with most of their refugees, are excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms.
Somehow, even in today’s “enlightened” age where information on human rights is democratized and widely disseminated, the complete absence of Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia is more plausible than the idea of human misinterpretation of statistics. It’s an inconvenient truth that needs to be addressed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-doanvo/europes-crisis-refugees_b_8175924.html?ir=Australia
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Understanding motives for extremism is not the same as condoning it. Understanding the idealism of ISIS doesn’t mean condoning their actions.
Some Muslims are terrified of the global spread and acceptance of Western ideas and morals. Many do feel Islamic ethics and morals are superior to Christian, although that is a generalisation. Culture gets labelled as religion, when they can easily be separated.
Most know that neither terrorism nor the enforcement of Sharia law is the answer. But if they can take the best of Western culture, and the West take the best of theirs, all will benefit.
It would be great to look forward to no more extremism, but I guess it will always be there. We can realistically look forward to controlling it, I believe.
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The misinformation is the rot you are dishing out.
Even Muslims know its wasabi terror spreading around the world and that most of the salafists are Saudi in ideology.
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Ahhh Dom
The Saudis are so corrupt
There’s little evidence to support these numbers in the Gulf. There are no refugee camps in the Gulf and even visit visas for Syrians are difficult to come by due to the political situation Amnesty International ask questions an get little reply. Absence of proof is not proof in itself, and media statements are not enough for me to believe that something is itself true. The claims of millions of Syrians being taken in by the Gulf as the equivalent of refugees in the west, plus the article you wrote was August last year. Things have changed greatly since then with even more taken in by the west.
In Saudi Arabia the “refugee camps” are empty or do not exist. As in the media recently there are daily mass executions.
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In Saudi Arabia the “refugee camps” are empty or do not exist.
Syrians are resettled rather than left in refugee camps. Saudia Arabia has adopted a policy not to treat the Syrians as refugees, or place them in refugee camps.
http://anonhq.com/the-truth-about-saudi-arabia-not-accepting-syrian-refugees/
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A fatwa! Wonderful! Will there be action?
Time will tell.
Will Saudi Arabia send in troops to destroy ISIS? Will Turkey?
Will they take refugees? Will other Muslim countries support Libya to protect refugees crossing the sea?
Japan has less than 1000 muslims and none can pray outside or convert others. How many terror issues? None.
Why do we have so many muslim incidences of terror around the world? what are Islam leaders doing? What about Islamic governments that seem to be part of the problem? Can Islam evolve itself? Can it reduce corruption and provide more for its youth who are clambering to kill others and join ISIS and other terror groups? So many questions that require lots of action, real identifiable action to reduce the problem.
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Japan has less than 1000 muslims and none can pray outside or convert others. How many terror issues? None.
Could this possible be more misinformation. Hard to keep up with it all 🙂
1000 Muslims ?
In 1982, Muslims numbered some 30,000; half of whom were native Japanese and the rest of different origins. With complete freedom of religion in Japan, the number of Muslims is expected to reach 100,000.
Apparently there are a whole list of myths related to Japan.
http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/
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Seems to be a problem posting this. I’l try it without the link. The article is in huffington post.
Will Saudi Arabia send in troops to destroy ISIS? Will Turkey?
Will they take refugees?
More misinformation.
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE are not parties to any of the UN protocols on refugees, and so through this technicality, they, along with most of their refugees, are excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms.
Somehow, even in today’s enlightened age where information on human rights is democratized and widely disseminated, the complete absence of Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia is more plausible than the idea of human misinterpretation of statistics. It’s an inconvenient truth that needs to be addressed.
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As stu would say
where is the evidence?
excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms.
As for the Japanese, there are those who live there and those who work there temporarily.
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Hi Dom
Since you like Huffington post thought I would do same
“This appears to be a monumental campaign to bulldoze the more moderate strains of Islam, and replace them with the theo-fascist Saudi variety. Despite being well aware of the issue, Western powers continue to coddle the Saudis or, at most, protest meekly from time to time.”
“The money goes to constructing and operating mosques and madrassas that preach radical Wahhabism. The money also goes to training imams; media outreach and publishing; distribution of Wahhabi textbooks, and endowments to universities and cultural centers. A cable released by Wikileaks explains, regarding just one region of Pakistan:
Government and non-governmental sources claimed that financial support estimated at nearly 100 million USD annually was making its way to Deobandi and Ahl-e-Hadith clerics in the region from “missionary” and “Islamic charitable” organizations in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates ostensibly with the direct support of those governments.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html?ir=Australia
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“…in a report written this week by Dr Denis MacEoin, an Islamic studies expert at Newcastle who previously taught at the University of Fez. Leading a team of researchers over a two-year project, he uncovered a hoard of malignant literature inside as many as a quarter of Britain’s mosques. All of it had been published and distributed by agencies linked to the government of King Abdullah.
Among the more choice recommendations in leaflets, DVDs and journals were statements that homosexuals should be burnt, stoned or thrown from mountains or tall buildings (and then stoned where they fell just to be on the safe side). Those who changed their religion or committed adultery should experience a similar fate.
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“As stu would say where is the evidence?”
Yet you still can’t provide any evidence to support your earlier claims about Muslims in Neukölln, let alone Japan? You are in no position to demand evidence from anyone until you do so yourself or withdraw your claims.
“Even Muslims know its wasabi terror spreading…”
Wasabi? Try reviewing what you write before hitting post.
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Afghanistan is not the only place where Pakistani leaders have flirted with terrorist clients. Pakistan has also assisted rebel forces in Kashmir even though those groups have committed terrorist acts against civilians. And it should be noted that a disproportionate number of the extremist madrasas schools funded by the Saudis operate in Pakistan.
It is time for China, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia to prove by their deeds, not just their words, that they are serious about contributing to the campaign against international terrorism. In China’s case, that means ending all militarily relevant exports to regimes that have sponsored terrorism. In the cases of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, it means defunding terrorist organizations and the extremist “schools” that provide them with recruits. It also means severing ties with such terrorist movements as the Taliban and the Kashmiri insurgents. The world is watching the actions of all three countries.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/terrorist-sponsors-saudi-arabia-pakistan-china
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Senegal, Cad may ban Burqa
Mbaye Niang, a Muslim leader and member of parliament, said the new law was designed to protect Islam. “We should not allow someone to cover their entire body like terrorists do. This is a tradition of some countries but it has nothing to do with Islam,” he told the local newspaper Le Quotidien. The reason terrorists use this method was because they wanted to attack the religion, he added.
Farid Essack, a religious studies scholar at the University of Johannesburg, said that context was key and the justifications used in Muslim countries did not necessarily apply elsewhere.
“In some political contexts, I find [the banning of burqas] deeply disturbing and an extension of Islamaphobia. I don’t think that the Chadian response is a manifestation of Islamophobia,” he said. “Chad … has had several bombings, a number of them were seemingly perpetrated by [fully covered] men, and I don’t think that it is unreasonable, in that context, to insist people should not be completely veiled in public.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/senegal-bans-burqa-stop-terrorists-disquising-islamic-dress
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It’s hard to keep up. Just as you plug one bit of misinformation another one appears. So lets recap on what we have so far..
Concerning ISIS; Muslim leaders have issued a fatwa against ISIS.
Japanese have over 100,000 Muslims in Japan and a good majority are native Japanese.
Saudi Arabia has taken on many hundred of thousands of refugees but do not treat them as refugees.
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Senegal, Cad may ban Burqa
The hijab is compulsory. The burqa is not mentioned in the Quran. The scholars are divided on whether the Niqab is Islamic or cultural,
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Dom
“It’s hard to keep up. Just as you plug one bit of misinformation another one appears.”
It’s a tactic known as the Gish Gallop – “if you can’t wow them with wit, baffle them with bulls*@t.”
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Gish Gallop. I could not remember the term. Thanks Stu.
Yes very effective against people who are time poor.
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I have not made all the claims on the list you are creating. I did about Muslims in Japan. There are certainly not 100,000 in Japan and little or none are Citizens. Japan dos not want them.
I have mostly posted news and information. I am also not asking you or Dom to keep up or even to reply. I am not asking you to reply to this either but you will as you need to whine and cry. As for tactics, do you have proof of that? No!
As for asking me for evidence I do at times and not at others. We all do that so you can keep off your high horse as it does not suit on a high moral ground. There is no law that states I must always have evidence for what I write or post.
If Dom has an issue with the Koran, Hijab and Senegal then he should contact Mbaye Niang, a Muslim leader and member of parliament.
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Dom and Muslim propaganda
As a result of this fact, the true size of the Muslim population in Japan remains a matter of speculation. Some Muslim organizations and media reports have put the number of Muslims in Japan at roughly 100,000, but that is probably an exaggerated estimate. Ddi you notice Dom, an estimate but recently you cried about a post using estimate. Hypocrisy anyone! There are also 2 million foreigners in Japan.
The most serious work on this question has been done by Japanese scholars such as Hiroshi Kojima of the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research and Keiko Sakurai of Waseda University. Their estimates suggest a Muslim population of around 70,000, of which perhaps 90% are temporary resident foreigners and about 10% native Japanese.
As I stated, there are approx 1000 or so muslims living in Japan. The rest do not as they are foreigners.
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Alexie:
“I have not made all the claims on the list you are creating.”
Neither Dom nor I have created a “list”. You made two claims about Muslims in Japan and Neukölln, neither of which are backed up with any evidence whatsoever despite your assertions that there is evidence.
“I have mostly posted news and information.”
No. You’ve only posted other people’s opinions and baseless assertions from dubious sources.
“I am also not asking you or Dom to keep up or even to reply.”
If you post something on an internet blog which gives other people the opportunity to reply, you should not be surprised that people choose to respond.
” As for tactics, do you have proof of that? No!”
You should learn the difference between “proof” and “evidence”. I have plenty of evidence that you are using the Gish Gallop tactic in this thread.
“There is no law that states I must always have evidence for what I write or post.”
There’s no law that says I can’t challenge you when you make baseless assertions either.
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Alexie:
“Their estimates suggest a Muslim population of around 70,000, of which perhaps 90% are temporary resident foreigners and about 10% native Japanese.”
Which doesn’t support your original claim that “Japan has less than 1000 muslims” and your second assertion that “none can pray outside or convert others” is demonstrably false.
“The rest do not as they are foreigners.”
Just because someone is a “foreigner” it doesn’t mean they don’t “live in Japan”. You should learn about concepts like temporary residency and permanent residency (both of which can be long term arrangements) so you can grasp this.
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Hi Alexie
I am not asking you to reply to this either
Please feel free not to reply if I should post any misinformation about Christianity. 🙂
Regarding Senegal I was stating what the Islamic position was. I don’t remember making any comments on Senegal.
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Dom, you should be careful
“Saudi Arabia has taken on many hundred of thousands of refugees but do not treat them as refugees.”
Really. Some reports say 500,00 and some 2.5 million. All from “saudi” sources. Of which you have listed as your evidence.
In Saudi Arabia, we don’t easily grant citizenship and that’s also the case in most Gulf countries. This policy is not due to racism or superiority – given that, for example, Saudi Arabia’s citizens consist of all races. The reason is purely economic. Our situation is like that of some European countries, like Hungary and Greece, who don’t want immigrants because their economies cannot contain them. We are not an enormous economic power like Germany who can – or rather, needs – to contain more immigrants yet it’s unwilling because it wants to select them and not receive them in such huge numbers.
Therefore, the reason is purely economic. Our brotherly relations with the Syrian people still prevailed, and we opened our doors to them as much we could. But our economy cannot tolerate hosting refugees who turn into residents.
Jamal Khashoggi is a Saudi journalist, columnist, author, and general manager of the upcoming Al Arab News Channel. He previously served as a media aide to Prince Turki al Faisal while he was Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the United States. Khashoggi has written for various daily and weekly Arab newspapers, including Asharq al-Awsat, al-Majalla and al-Hayat, and was editor-in-chief of the Saudi-based al-Watan. He was a foreign correspondent in Afghanistan, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan, and other Middle Eastern countries. He is also a political commentator for Saudi-based and international news channels.
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Alexie on January 4, 2016 at 09:28 said:
The misinformation is the rot you are dishing out.
Even Muslims know its wasabi terror spreading around the world and that most of the salafists are Saudi in ideology.
……………………………………………
Thanks for the laugh, Alexie. If instead of wasabi you mean wahabi, I do agree about them.
Makes no difference however to the content of my post.
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Dom on January 4, 2016 at 12:30 said:
Gish Gallop. I could not remember the term. Thanks Stu.
Yes very effective against people who are time poor.
………………………………………………………………………..
Time poor in the forum could be due to time spent productively elsewhere.
Having time to post here profusely may mean neglect of productive good works.
But we can’t judge, not knowing circumstances.
(I should probably shut up.)
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This is a start
All over North America, Muslims are doing their civic duty and informing the authorities when they learn of a radical planning to harm their fellow citizens. Read about one such foiled terror plot where a tip helped stop an attack on a passenger train in Canada here.
In another case in New Jersey, the families of men accused in terror plot aided the FBI.
In fact, Muslim communities have helped U.S. security officials to prevent nearly 2 out of every 5 Al-Qaeda plots threatening the United States since 9/11, according to a study done by Muslim Public Affairs Council. Read the report: http://www.mpac.org/assets/docs/publications/MPAC-Post-911-Terrorism-Data.pdf
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It is a start ?
Apparently they have been doing it since 9/11 according to your article so did they just start or have you just become aware of it ? What else are you unaware of ?
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Egypt’s Minister of Health Adel Adawy announced on Sunday that 92 percent of married Egyptian women have experienced female genital mutilation.
The latest results were announced at a conference held to reveal the results of the 2014 Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS).
According to the Minister, 92 percent of women aged between 15 and 49 who are or have been married suffer from genital mutilation.
The majority of females undergo genital mutilation between the ages of nine and 12, with only 31 percent of the operations run by doctors, said the Minister of Health.
The Minister of Health added that FGM in rural areas is as high as 95 percent, compared to up to 39.2 percent in urban cities.
The 2014 EDHS further found that more than 50 percent of married women in Egypt favor female genital mutilation and is in accordance with religious teachings, while 30 percent believe it should be banned. FGM is normally carried out by traditional midwives and ‘health barbers’.
Despite a large number of women surveyed believing that FGM is condoned by Islam, Egypt’s top Islamic authority has condemned the act as ‘un-Islamic’ and ‘barbaric’.
Moreover, Egypt banned female genital mutilation in 2008. Article 242 of Egypt’s Penal Code criminalizes the circumcision of girls The punishment for performing FGM is a prison sentence ranging from three months to two years or a fine of 5,000 Egyptian pounds.
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This old chestnut again. Oh well.
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Aslan holds a BA in religious studies from Santa Clara University, an MTS from Harvard Divinity School, an MFA from the University of Iowa’s Writers’ Workshop, and a PhD in sociology from the University of California, Santa Barbara.[
Whether or not his Ph.D is in religion is really not important, but just bear in mind the advisor of that Ph.D says it is, who by the way is affiliated with the university’s religion department (where Reza spent most of his time and work); so whether you think it qualifies as a “Ph.D in religion” or not, it is relevant and his other degrees still qualify him as a religious scholar.
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😆 Ouch! That just settles it then, I really must be an idiot! Happy New Year Strewth. Good to know I still have a sense of humour, though.
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