YOU don’t have to identify with any religion to see a creator’s hand in human life and morality, suggests a new survey.
LifeWay Research’s overall finding — that most Americans believe there is a creator who designed the universe and defines human morality — is not surprising. After all, 3 in 4 US adults identify with a religious denomination.
The surprise is that so many people who don’t identify with a religion — the so-called nones — agree.
The survey of 1000 US adults found that most Americans — 72 percent overall and 46 percent of nones — agree that: “Since the universe has organization, I think there is a creator who designed it.” This view is most strongly held by evangelicals and by older adults.
And most Americans — 79 percent overall, and 43 percent of nones — say they agree that “The fact that we exist means someone created us.”
http://www.cruxnow.com/faith/2015/10/08/religious-or-not-many-americans-see-a-creators-hand/
Bryan Patterson's Faithworks 
Seriously, I was in the process of putting this on the blog, like ten minutes ago, and then decided against it. 😯
CLEAR POINTERS TO TRUTH
There are many who hold to an atheistic world view; who believe that not only is there no God, but that there is no evidence of God.
Many disagree with that view, including Gregory Ganssle, Senior Fellow and lecturer in Philosophy at Yale University, who contends that there are clear pointers to God’s existence in our universe. He provides four of many such elements that an atheistic view cannot adequately or reasonably explain:
1. The universe is ordered rather than random.
2. It’s a world with consciousness, rational investigative thought and reflection.
3. We are in a world of free agency. People can think and act independently.
4. It’s a world with objective moral obligations – we instinctively know right from wrong.
Our universe is far from random.
http://gradresources.org/evidence-for-gods-existence/
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Disagree with number 4. Morality seems to come from nurture (learned behaviour) and empathy primarily.
As for the others, I’m not sure how that indicates we are created. What about our creator? And that creator’s creator? Is it an endless cycle of creation?
I think the better answer is that we don’t know.
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Hi Jason,
Did you read the link I provided? He goes into a greater discussion of the questions you have brought up. Made me think, anyway. And here’s another article from Creation.com—Who Created God? The comments are worth reading too as the author responds to a few of them. But as you say, I agree that in the end, what we believe is a matter of ‘faith’.
http://creation.com/who-created-god
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Interesting link Monica, but it is a very universe-centric approach. For all we know, our universe could be but a small part of an even greater system of universes. The argument presented is reminiscent of earlier arguments that suggested that the Earth is the centre of the universe and everything is centred around the Earth. We now know that is not true. I would be careful about putting the same perspective upon the universe.
But I agree, any viewpoint of existence does come down to faith. I prefer to be curious to learn while accepting that I do not know and may never know.
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Jason, it can appear that those who are ” nurtured” better or differently have varying morals to those who are not, or who are nurtured very little. I would say though if you sit with someone and ask what the right way is. even when they break the moral norm, you will find they indeed know. This says there is a sense of morality and right and wrong within us.
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There is an escapee from North Korea that turned in their family for plotting to escape. The result is they and their family were tortured. The person who did that eventually escaped North Korea them-self but felt no remorse for what they did to their family. They were raised being told that what they did truly is the ‘right’ thing.
Where morality seems fairly consistent is based on an understanding of consequences from actions. Survival is quite instinctual. Nearly anything else beyond that I think you will find is learned behaviour if you explore where such ideas come from.
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Like I said, if you actually sit down and talk to them…. Lack of remorse does not by default mean they are imoral.
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I am one brought up to do what feels wrong, and still do it now. I kill blowflies, I eat fellow mammals. I love roast chicken. I am two-faced that I happily eat sentient beings if someonelse kills them.
It was easy enough as a child, when it’s just what everyone around you does. Why does it change as you get a deeper awareness? More puzzling, why do we keep on doing what feels so wrong?
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You can postulate as much as you can about what could be outside this universe.
But that does not make any difference .
This sentence :-
“The fact that we exist means someone created us.”
is the critical issue .
Given the method this universe functions :-
Folding dimensions.
Most likely only one item within those dimensions
Chaos a intrinsic value.
Fractals.
Entropy driving all to the lowest level .
Given these what value has man placed upon himself at in regards all the rest of the universe??
Everything that is has the same value.
There is no place or time or flicker of energy [thus mass] having more importance than any other.
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Fractals, the golden ratio are amazing. Chaos is a misnomer as there is order. Everything has the same value means it all depends on each to make it work. What holds it all together? What cast the first? Anthropic principles abound.
Indeed it is important to ask how we got here. Where does the information come from?
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Crushing Bones is obviously no scientist.
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Everything is ordered and complies to laws issued by God except man.
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Aaah
The modesty of homo sapiens
No quantitative evidence that homo sapiens have been able to escape the laws of this universe.
.
So easy to make brash statements putting homo sapiens at the apex .
How many different religions have done that ??
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Consider the words of the late writer, David Foster Wallace:
“In the day-to-day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship. And an outstanding reason for choosing some sort of God or spiritual-type thing to worship — be it J.C. or Allah, be it Yahweh or the Wiccan mother-goddess or the Four Noble Truths or some infrangible set of ethical principles — is that pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive.
“If you worship money and things, then you will never have enough, never feel you have enough. Worship your body and beauty and sexual allure and you will always feel ugly. Worship power, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out.”
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Worship your intellect, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out.”
Well in the past thirty years the IQ level in Yankland has dropped FIVE POINTS.
Is that so they can be closer to their god.
Or a certainty of Quack Quack Trump getting in.
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See !
It is great that homo sapiens have a special group to tell all the rest of homo sapiens how important they are .
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“In the day-to-day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship“
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What are human beings that you are mindful of them,
mortals that you care for them?
Yet you made them a little lower than God,
and crowned them with glory and honour.
You have given them dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under their feet.
[Ps 8:4–6]
All human beings, whether or not they realise it, are individual creations of God.
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🙂
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Sorry I put my smile in the wrong place.
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So easy to make brash statements putting homo sapiens at the apex
Looks like you were already thinking about your reply before you even finished reading my statement. Reread my statement.
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We can agree on that Dom.
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🙂
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Homo sapiens demands to be at the apex.
Given the time scale and entropy of the universe why could not the stars themselves be alive.
Given the hidden six dimensions man will never prove either way
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The Bible responds with a very clear, “Yes!” According to Scripture, humans are not only the highest of God’s acts of creation, they are created in the “likeness” or “image” of God. “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness’…So God created man in his own image…male and female he created them” (Genesis 1:26, 27). The rest of the Bible gives us many clues as to what this “likeness to God” is meant to imply. The Anglican scholar and writer, John Stott, speaking at a National Prayer Breakfast at Westminster, summed this up well.
First, he said, there is our self-conscious rationality. We are able to think and reason, to stand outside ourselves, look at ourselves and evaluate ourselves. It is true that, in terms of the vastness of the universe, we are infinitely small, and yet we are the ones who possess the intelligence to study the universe, its workings and formation.
Secondly, there is our ability to make moral choices. We have a built in moral conscience, even if, sadly, we may fail to heed it. We have an inward urge to do what we perceive to be right and a sense of guilt if we do what we believe to be wrong.
Thirdly, as our God is a creative God, there are our powers of artistic creativity. In consequence, we draw and we paint, we build and we sculpt, we dream and we dance, we write poetry and we make music. We are able to appreciate what is beautiful to the eye, the ear and the touch.
Fourthly, as our God is a God who exists as three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, persons who have always existed together in love relationships,so there is our capacity for relationships of love.* He gave us the capacity to love and to be loved. Our greatest joys in life come from loving relationships, just as our greatest sorrows come through spoiled relationships. We are relational beings. It is not an accident that the first and greatest commandments are to love God and our neighbour.
Fifthly, there is our insatiable thirst for God. Neither the secularism and gross materialism of the West, nor the failed communistic philosophy of the East can satisfy the longings of the human spirit. The human “spirit” is constantly mentioned in the Bible (e.g. Zechariah 12:1 and often in the New Testament). Whereas the term “soul” or “life” is used of animals (Hebrew—Genesis 1:21, Greek—Revelation 16:3), “spirit” never is. God is spirit and we were created for fellowship with him.
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Made in God’s image, we also have three equivalent natures, As a somewhat distorted reflection of Wisdom,(Holy Spirit), Power (Father), and Love, (Son),. we have reason, self will, and emotion. With a bit of work and the grace of God these can become creative thought, self control, and compassion.
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Beautifully said Strewth.
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So !
The stars could be the real life in this universe .
The microbes also could have their own version of what life is all about .
What proof could there be this universe is not just a version of a blood clot.
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From http://www.is-there-a-god.info/clues/design.shtml
Cosmologists can calculate what they believe happened from the very earliest moments of the big bang, and can estimate the values of a range of cosmic constants and physical properties. There are scores of these numbers, but not all are independent. Physicist Paul Davies lists 13 constants and 12 derived quantities; cosmologist Martin Rees discusses six numbers, but as most of these are ratios of other numbers, his total comes to about a dozen.
It turns out that many of these numbers must lie within very narrow ranges, both now, and right back at the early stages of the big bang, for the universe to exist and form galaxies, stars and planets, and to provide the opportunity for complex life to appear.
A list of some of the most notable of these examples of “fine-tuning” (e.g. relating to the strength of the four fundamental forces, the mass of fundamental particles, etc) is at it looks like it was designed, so I will only describe two of the most amazing examples here.
The cosmological constant, or vacuum energy, is a major determining factor of whether the universe collapsed in on itself shortly after the big bang, or flew apart so fast that no matter coalesced into stars and planets, or is in a narrow range that allows a viable universe to form. Its value is obtained by subtracting two large cosmic forces, and theory suggested that it too would be large. But for the universe, stars & planets to exist, it must be very small. It turns out that the large forces cancel out accurately to 119 decimal places, yielding the required value. String theory “guru”, Leonard Susskind says: “To make the first 119 decimal places of the vacuum energy zero is most certainly no accident.”
Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly ‘right’ to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero. To get a picture of this number, note that the number of baryons (protons & neutrons) in the universe is estimated to be about 10^80. We could write that number as 1 followed by 80 zeros. But to write Penrose’s number would require 1 followed by a zero on every baryon in the universe, and then more.
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Fractals, the golden ratio are amazing. Chaos is a misnomer as there is order. Everything has the same value means it all depends on each to make it work. What holds it all together? What cast the first? Anthropic principles abound.
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So if one denies God and worships his intellect only, what does he “think” when told his intelkect is unreliable. Slow and fast thinking tells us we canot rely in it.
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What could be worshipped is the ordered mysteriousness of existence. No God necessary, because that’s a jump to conclusions.
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“ordered mysteriousness of existence”
Sure, no jump there
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bryanpattersonfaithworks
on October 10, 2015 at 12:05 said:
“In the day-to-day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship“
And there we have “””IT “””
A definitive proclamation.
Those neuron within Bryan’s head have decided what ALL neurons in all the brains of everything that has been ,is and will be will function EXACTLY the same as they do .
Pardon while I put myself down for a frontal lobotomy.
Why bother thinking anymore !!
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Why bother thinking? Because you might discover something important. If you open your mind AT.
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Well your the one telling me how my neurons process data .
With this broad brush statement :-
“In the day-to-day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship“.
Exactly how did you arrive at such a statement.
If you can pinpoint the thoughts of everyone else please inform the police and the courts.
It would speed up the legal system .
WELL !!
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Well, who or what do you worship Atheist Thinking/Crushing Bones? Think about that mate.
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“O” Bryan
You are making the claim that I and EVERYONE else on the planet worship .
What data and long term research have you done to test your claim ??
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It’s pretty clear that you worship something mate.
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Does everyone claim reduire data and research? Can one claim it is raining when one gets wet? Or do we rewuire meterological data and research?
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Hey Alexie,
Well if you told me that it had been raining but couldn’t find one single piece of met data to back you up then I’d be really, really skeptical of the claim.
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You worship thinking but trip up on your thinking all the time. Read up on the nobel laureate slow and fast thinking. Will make you think!
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“What proof could there be this universe is not just a version of a blood clot.”
With thinking like that one can give up now. You remind me of E.kant who likened reality to an illusion. That we can never really know. You ask for proof, data, research of everyone and everything. In that case may I ask who is asking? How will i really know? Are you in fact asking questions? Do you really exist?
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Alexie
You miss the point !
Back in time what did those supposed knowledgeable people declare the world was sitting upon.
And if you were sent back to those times and stated you knew the real situation of the world and had ZERO EVIDENCE to show them what do you think of your chances of lasting a few weeks more of life .
Keep in mind the worlds position in the universe is relatively easy with today equipment.
But you are stating you know what outside this universe is.
With ZERO ABILITY to gain any hard evidence .
And you get pissed off for me making cynical fun of what could be
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Alexie, Why bother trying to educate him/her. You can’t win an argument with a brick wall because a brick wall never admits defeat..
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Is someone really replying to my comment? No one can know for sure. Is there really a universe let alone evidence for one. How can one trust evidence when all is an illusion.
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bryanpattersonfaithworks
on October 11, 2015 at 17:19 said:
It’s pretty clear that you worship something mate.
“”O”” Bryan
The ego has proven to strong for you to admit you claim as nothing but unsubstantiated dribble !
You can make as much claim as knowing what is outside this universe .
And claim your view is the true version.
But claiming you know what others think has to be the same as your brain issues.
When making a claim about others place your proven facts accompanied with years of data from hundreds of thousands of random selected peoples.
Put all that into a science paper and submit it to a science journal.
Await judgement from others !!
Then in about ten years await for a call from some place in Scandinavia .
Until that time just go suck a lemon { I did at one time hand a boss a lemon and told him to SUCK IT]
So don’t be upset for your are not the only person .
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Ho Hum!!!!
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“O” Bryan and others.
Clearly you believe in what you state in regards to what you wish fore to be outside this universe.
I have CYNICALLY put forward concepts to what could be.
I could come up with multitude upon multitude of tangents.
All with myself having zero importance.
My thinking is if I was that important I would have existed before this universe existed.
Clearly I was not !!
And this universe was existent for about 13,700,000,000 years without having me .
And it will continue for maybe a trillion trillion trillion trillion years without me.
At this stage you will be making a judgement upon my thinking process.
Scorning my neurons with contempt !
Making judgments that I am lacking in mental power.
Aaah he has lost it there is something wrong with him etc ,etc ,etc
But to make such claims about how my neuron work what is your reference point ???
Were is your reference point to make such judgments upon my neurons??
It has to be something of the highest quality with “ZERO ERRORS”
Totally accurate!
As clean as fusion of Hydrogen into Helium and as penetrating as e neutrino passing right throw the earth.
Apparently you believe between your ears your neurons are that .
Not only are you making judgement but your also declaring how I am thinking.
How exactly did you acquire the impression you have the mental power to judge me ?
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Oh dear, the neurons have gone beserk
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Is there anyone out there? Do we really exist?do errors exist in a non existing world?
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There is ZERO possibility to prove anything outside this universe.
And any judgement constructed by neurons after a reward is worthless .
It is called a “” PLASEBO “”
The best example of a “”PLASEBO “” are RELIGIONS.
That is why there are so many .
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How do you know there is “zero possibility” to prove anything outside this universe.
Evidence please.
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A universe with no possibility, no evidence, an illussionary universe of itself cannot even contain a zero of anything. Such a universe is simply not real, an illusion. One may well ask who is asking? Zero possibility is simply not possible in your universe crushing moans.
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Great question bryan. Of course there is no possibility as nothing really exists. Let aline prove the possibility of zero possibility.
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bryanpattersonfaithworks
on October 13, 2015 at 19:45 said:
How do you know there is “zero possibility” to prove anything outside this universe.
Evidence please.
This :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background
It shows a residual temperature of about 2.4 k of a event some 13,700,000,000 years ago .
To have that image the back ground has to be ZERO K before the big bang and up to the present
Just think about what that means
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Sorry CB. That’s a fail. Not evidence at all.
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A image of the universe 13,700,000,000 years ago and you fob it off in under fifteen minutes.
I look at that image and ponder the situation and the possibilities .
You instead prefer the penned words of spin merchants .
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Still no evidence. Try again.
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bryanpattersonfaithworks
on October 13, 2015 at 19:45 said:
How do you know there is “zero possibility” to prove anything outside this universe.
Evidence please.
No doubt your plasebo rose tinted spectacles will shade you from viewing such information so you will not look more intensely .
Nothing will move you to look at anything that rocks your plasebo.
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It’s PLACEBO. And still no evidence.
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Well you certainly did not look carefully .
Aaah !!
There was no reward !!
And you do require a reward
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You have problems with logic as well as spelling CB
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I don’t think that is fair Bryan. English is not his first language so he should be given some slack with his grammar and spelling. In fact he has improved a lot over the years.
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You’re right Dom. I apologise CB.
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<>
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thumbs up
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Bryan why do you have problem in people such as me not having your version of neurons pathways ?
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Don’t be paranoid mate. I don’t have a problem with your neuron pathway atheist thinking/crushing bones. You are entitled to your view, as I am to mine.
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Bryan
on October 14, 2015 at 14:16 said:
You have problems with logic as well as spelling CB
So Bryan if you remove the benefit of a reward the logic is wrong.
As for spelling how many ways did bill spell his name .
Religions are a “”PLACEBO”” and a very useful crowd control.
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A machine with four motors ,two gearboxes,two micro grove drive belts,two linear scales with accuracy to within .01mm ,two cutters ,two components spinning and their axial position within .01mm.
The machine is about 600 mm x 500 mm x 450 mm.
And it does it,s job in about 90 seconds.
“”Yes “”
I made such a machine !!
“” WITHOUT “” drawings !!
All done by the neurons in my head !
My neurons work in three dimensional a tangential manor.
So your talent is pressing the correct key .
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So you are a mechanic. Not a scientist
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“”No “”
Not a mechanic.
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