If America Became a Christian Nation

American author Benjamin Corey has imagined what would need to happen If America Became a Christian Nation and concluded: “The ones who advocate it probably Wouldn’t Like What it Looked Like”

Corey’s list of what might happen if America followed Jesus’ teaching and example include:

We’d Have To Abolish the 2nd Amendment (the one about right to bear arms).

We’d Have to Replace the Department of Defense with the Department of Enemy Love.

We’d Have to End Capital Punishment.

Eradicating Poverty Would Be One of Our Most Pressing Concerns.

We’d Freely Care for the Sick.

We’d Become The Most Loving Nation Toward Immigrants.

We’d Do Away with the Pledge of Allegiance.

We’d Pay Our Taxes Without Complaining About It.

You can read Corey’s justification for the above at
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/christiannation/

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95 thoughts on “If America Became a Christian Nation

  1. This century we have seen South Korea be ome a 40% Christian nation and it has seen rapid development yet the North Koreans under atheism are the exact opposite

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    • Alexie, I admire your enthusiasm for your belief system, but the oppressive North Korean government is what holds them back, not what they believe. Also, I wouldn’t call them atheist either, they are taught to believe that their leader and his lineage are supernatural figures of worship.

      South Korea has been successful because of hard work, better connection to the outside world, and a more free society. They are over 40% non-religious. Under 30% Christian according to Wikipedia. I don’t think belief played as large of a role as you think in their success.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_South_Korea

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      • Let me broaden somewhat. Christianity brought schooling and science. ( before you argue this do research and not heed to historical revisionisn) it brought laws as we have in the west, it brought propseity and it allowed democracy and capitalism to flourish. The west is built on Christian values but that has waned in the precedung few decades. China is growing and i would argue in line with its growth in Christianity. South Korea too. The only country that stands out from this is Japan.

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      • I wonder if it’s more that a more open society allows Christianity to flourish more than the other way around. Capitalism and democracy are not a Christian values as far as I’m aware.

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      • As to Nth Korea and its atheism. It certainly is but as you pointed out the contradiction of worshipping the leaders. It is indeed a state sanctioned atheism.

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      • Science ?
        Aristotle , Epicurus , Ibn al-Haytham, Al-Biruni, Ibn Sina/

        Not to mention the great contribution made by India – after all Christianity comes from India

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  2. I wonder why not the pledge of allegiance? Cannot see this as anti-God. The last one is impossible. Taxes will always be grumbled about.😀

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    • Pledge of Allegiance is patriotism. It can conflict with allegiance to God. If the country goes in a direction that opposes the Bible and your allegiance is pledged to the country, then that is a problem.

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  3. Off topic, but I need to ask this……Why are Kyle and Jackie O allowed to get away with gross indecency on their radio station and not arrested by our Police, and the radio station shut down? What kind of a society do we live in that turns a blind eye to the stench these two emit? How much greater the depravity do we have to sink to before Jesus returns?

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      • Right o so Jesus who was around in Roman times what with the debauchery and orgies and the like would think that standards have gone down ?

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      • Ah…..you may not see it, but we are the modern Romans. Just because it’s not blatantly in our faces yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t going on.

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      • Right – we might also be the modern Martians too – just because it’s not blatantly in your face, or even remotely similar, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

        Doesn’t mean it’s not complete and utter twaddle either.

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  4. Thought i would cover a few areas here in relation to America poddinly becoming more islamic, not Christian. Obama government has greatly changed the landscape in the US. Not for the better. Today it is less Christian and the troubles are not going away with riots common.
    I was surprisef to hear Mon speaking in tongues using Allah. I already know Bryans stand on Islam. Allah is not the Biblical God in action nor in definition. Those who know the Koran can see that they are not the one God we believe in. In Surah 10 it outlines the Islamic State. It outlines Jesus is only a prophet and denies He died on the cross. The same God cannot contradict Himself in this way. If it is indeed the same God how do you explain the Bible and Koran? In the Kiran it states God cannot have His Words changed. Thete are no mistakes. It also states to follow the truth of the Injil, the Bible. Then Muslims say the Bible has been corrupted. So how can the Koran say Gods Word can not be a mistake yet acknowledge the Bible is truth and should be sourced. Many muslims are realising this and leaving Islam. Here in Australia we are seeing the actions of Islam. Yes, many Muslims are peaceful but the facts are a minoriry of tens of millions are militant. Islamin some places is trying to modernise but the silent killers within each society quietly puts pressure on others to become extremists. We as Christians must pray for them in love. To meet their needs and to care.

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    • When addressing our God, Alexie,

      Peoples who speak Arabic say ‘Allah’. Simple!

      The gift of ‘Diverse Tongues’ is different to ‘personal’ tongues. It is for edifying the Church, not self. It is ‘known’ (or ancient) languages which needs the gift of interpretation to go along with it. I’ve only just found out that the Maltese (who are staunch Catholics) say ‘Alla’ for God. And I agree—-“There are gods at war and the stakes couldn’t be higher”. Obviously the god of Islam and the God of Christianity are not the same God when you compare these faiths, but there’s only One True God Who hears all prayers and Who is above all other gods.

      How are you doing btw? Good to hear from you. What have you been up to all these years? 🙂

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      • Hi Mon

        All good. The Lord is good. Hope all is well with you.
        I am now involved with a coptic community. Most Egyption with some Greek,Middle eastern and Russian. They do not use Allah as its Muslim. They have first hand experience of the “Religion of Peace”.

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      • Hi again Mon

        Been working in Education as usual. Now moved into ICT education. Software, electronics and hopefully with 3D printers and fabrication.
        Not involved in prison work. Life got very busy and my health suffered. Things good now and enjoying more free time.

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      • Oh that’s good news Alexie.

        So are you working from home now? That would be a lovely place (and pace) to work from now. Also glad to hear that your health is on the mend. Yeah, burn-out is no fun. Keep well dear man.

        All’s well my end, thank God.

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    • Hi Alexir

      Can you please provide the verses for these.

      In the Kiran it states God cannot have His Words changed. Thete are no mistakes. It also states to follow the truth of the Injil, the Bible.

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      • Say: “O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.” It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Surah 5:68

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      • Left out surah 6:115 about God makes no kistakes. His Word does not change invluding in the al-kitab

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      • Monica, Dom/

        Dom posted a bit of Aramaic, Jesus sounds to be saying al ilah.
        ilah being an aramaic rendering of el o him perhaps [which is both singular and plural/ fits the Trinity]

        If ilah is god, generically, and there are many gods, as scripture says, then “allah” as a proper noun is a specific one, not the generic ‘ilah’ of Aramaic

        allah, can not be the ‘ilah’ Yehoshuah was referring to.

        As this relates to hundreds of millions dead and ongoing wars on 4 continents it is worth getting this ‘right’.

        As I personally met an Egyptian born Arabic speaking Coptic Christian woman recently who told be they simply say “God”, in English, so as not to confuse people into thinking they are talking about the Islamic “allah” = the allah who didn’t raise Jesus from the dead.

        to this day, a lot of Jews reading scipture in public don’t pronounce YHWH but simply say the word adonai instead. Likewise it seems arabic speaking Copts are opting for saying God when they see allah in an arabic bible

        Arab Spring is coming to Australia, West Sydney land for peace deals etc. Better get used to pointing out we aren’t talking the same deity, God, God head, history of Isaac and Ishmael.

        Someone lied,

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      • One of my all time favourite movies is Bill Murray’s lost in translation. A burnt out jet lagged jaded super star is in the Orient/ far East, can do anything they ask him, but only if he understands them. Scarlett Johansson has a beautiful bum. Friendships falls naturally out of chaos.

        In Arabic, GOD is called ILAH, not Allah.
        So the most famous line in Islam is: There is no ilah but allah.

        If allah simply meant god, the sentence would read, the is no allah but allah.
        allah is a name.
        It is the name of a spirit – guess which.

        If this weren’t taking billions of people to hell, I’d congratulate satan and say this is quite funny,
        “There is no god [ilah] worthy of worship except ALLAH [Allah] and Muhammad is his messenger”

        “La Ilah [god] Illa’ [except] Allah, wa [and] Muhammad Rasool’ [messenger of] Allah”

        Any way it won’t prevent the war/ blood bath that’s coming, but I really want to clear this up with some honest Arab speaking Christians. No way the taqiyya crowd will give an honest report on it. cheers. love in Jesus Name.

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  5. http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/bibleallah.htm

    Perhaps Mel Gibson’s researchers got it wrong. Is modern Syriac/ Aramaic at odds with the ancient?
    Perhaps the speech should have read “alaha” with three vowel sounds.

    Even in the Syriac one would expect to find: the Name of alaha is YHWH.

    http://realmessiah.name/studies/yahshua_as_yahweh_3.html

    or how the Peshitta and some obscure linguists helped save my soul.

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      • Its not the “Allah” that is the issue. Its that the Muslim god is not the Hebrew/Christian one. The descrptions of God in the Bible are not Islamic. The Islamic god denies Christ for starters.

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      • I just got this from Turk, Tommy Hass:

        confiirmation # 1 ilah is god.
        allah is a specific god
        tanri is god in turkish.

        hence dom, you are right. allah didn’t raise Jesus from the dead, ilah did. Ilah is Yah.

        and Bryan doesn’t worry about your doctrine, it seems. he needs to protect your ears from what isn’t feel good.

        and Mon, well are you praying to dom’s allah is ilah?

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      • My kids enjoyed Matilda and the Lego movie:

        yet i don’t think its an accurate rendition of the Eternal gospel

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      • Get educated PhillipGeorge….In the Arab speaking world there’s no difficulty in calling God ‘Allah’ – they’ve been doing it in the Christian church and in the Bible for hundreds of years.

        In the Coptic Church in Egypt, the church in Syria, Jordan, Iraq and even Iran, it’s always been the practice to call God ‘Allah’ using the Arabic form. Although the Arabic Bible wasn’t translated fully before Islam came, it’s obvious that people were reading the Gospels using ‘Allah’ before the rise of Islam.
        “The word ‘God’ came when the Bible was translated into Anglo-Saxon, and comes from a pagan name for a deity – it’s a northern European understanding. So when Christians have strict view on using the word ‘Allah’ but are very happy to use the King James translation of the Bible, or even more recent, I smile to myself.

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      • Is not YHWH a personal name for the thunder God pf the mountain, whose priest was father-on-law to Moses? The name supposed by some to be based on the tetragrammaton, who Moses carried around with him?

        The word which simply means God changes from language to language, and is not a name. When we proclaim that ‘their’ God is not ‘ours’, don’t we mean their concept of God is not ours?

        Danish…………………Gut
        Swedish……………….Gut
        English………………..God
        Norwegian……………..Gud
        Swiss………………….Gott
        Dutch…………………Godt
        German………………..Gott
        Flemish……………….Goed
        Old Saxon………………God
        French…………………Dieu
        Gallic…………………..Diu
        Spanish……………….Dios
        Latin…………………Deus
        Low Latin……………..Diex
        Low Breton…………….Done
        Irish……………………Dia
        Italian………………….Dio
        German (old)……………Diet
        Olalu Tongue…………..Deu
        Provencal……………..Diou
        Celtic………………….Diu
        French…………………Dieu
        Armorian……………..Teuti
        Egyptian (modern)………Teun
        Egyptian (old)………….Teut
        Greek……………….Theos
        Cretan……………….Thios
        Hebrew………..Elohim, Eloha
        Chaldaic…………. Eilah
        Assyrian……………… Eleah
        Arabic………………..Allah
        Turkish………………Allah
        Malay…………………Alla
        Syriac………………..Allah
        AEolian…………………Ilos
        Slav………………..Buch
        Polish…………………Bog
        Russian……………….Bojh
        Pollacca……………..Bung
        Lapp …………………Jubinal
        Persian………………..Sire

        Seemingly unrelated to the above, the following are not personal names either, but translations of the word ‘God’.

        Pannonian………………Istu
        Runic… ……………….As
        Tartar…………….Magatal
        Zemblain…………….Fetizo
        Chinese………………Prussa
        Finch……………….Jumala
        Hindoostanee…………..Rain
        Japanese…………….Goezur
        Madagascar….. …….Zannar
        Peruvian……….Puchecammae

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      • No,
        according to Tommy Hass and others

        Arabic ilah
        Syriac/ Aramaic alaha

        given a bomb is going off somewhere near you soon because of dishonesting in reporting real ilah we should taking this to the 99 degree.

        And seeing you don’t believe the Torah, don’t quote any of it. EVOLUTION is religion. See Karl Popper. Again.

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      • Arabic-speaking Coptic, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Maronite, evangelical, and Reformed Christians worship Allah, which is simply the word or term for God in another language. Islam does not hold a copyright to the term. In fact, Arab Christians existed before Islam appeared on the scene. Christians who worship Allah number in the millions, and their biblical version of Allah differs from the Qur’anic version. To demean or demonize the word for God in another language does a great disservice to believers who speak that language

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  6. Carla,
    the question is was the Aramaic god ‘alaha’ ever correctly transliterated into Arabic?

    foreign language noun conjugation isn’t something i expect to get my head around overnight.

    http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/allah_bible.html

    allahi , allahu, proper noun verses general noun and alaha.

    apparently the Arabic bibles say quite plainly that Jesus is the only begotten Son of allahi or allaha, but the history of the double lamed and the conjugation changes from aramaic to arabic are something I’m not able to source on this page.

    suffice to say, I don’t think what you are saying is quite fully true.

    the question remain: who did ilah say He is, by name: An: YHWH, YaH, Jehovah, Yahweh are all the same. Hebraic or Anglicized it doesn’t matter. They are not a title, nor an office, but a Name.

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    • Arabic-speaking Coptic, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Maronite, evangelical, and Reformed Christians worship Allah, which is simply the word or term for God in another language. Islam does not hold a copyright to the term. In fact, Arab Christians existed before Islam appeared on the scene. Christians who worship Allah number in the millions, and their biblical version of Allah differs from the Qur’anic version. To demean or demonize the word for God in another language does a great disservice to believers who speak that language

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      • lexie on May 16, 2015 at 15:37 said:

        Hi Mon

        All good. The Lord is good. Hope all is well with you.
        I am now involved with a coptic community. Most Egyption with some Greek,Middle eastern and Russian. They do not use Allah as its Muslim. They have first hand experience of the “Religion of Peace”.

        so many gentle meek shall inherit the earth teachable spirits here. Did you ask your husband or is that advice from the wrong bible?

        you haven’t heard a word above have you?
        If the Koran says there is no ilah but allah, and the bible says there are many ilah(s), which is a name for god, and which is the title of God.

        Interesting Alexie can see where this is headed.

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      • The facts are that The Bible in some Muslim lands uses a word for God other than Allah (Farsi and Urdu are examples). But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah. How, then, can we say that Allah is an invalid name for God? If it is, to whom have these Jews and Christians been praying?

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      • again Russ, the difference between a name and a title.

        http://www.inthenameofallah.org/La%20Ilah%20illa'%20Allah.html

        God is not a name.
        ilah is not a name.
        alaha is not a name
        Allah has been codified into a Name, apparently to replace YHWH as a specific name/ appellation for muhammadan muslims to pray.

        How did ilah and allah really look in 1500 year old texts? Given there would have been few 1500 year old translation of the gospel what did they really look like?

        there have been some changes post muhammad apparently, the double lamed convention I believe?
        And are we talking about al ilah = the god in conventional arabic.

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      • You are relying on suspect sites PhillipGeorge.
        The basic question is whether the word “Allah” can be considered a generic
        term for the supreme being that can be used to translate elohim or theos, which
        are themselves generic terms in Hebrew and Greek. The Arab philologists discussed
        the etymology of the word at great length. Some held that it was a loan
        word from Syriac or Hebrew, but most regarded it as a contraction of al ilāh
        (“the god”). Western scholars are fairly unanimous that the source of the word
        Allah probably is through Aramaic from the Syriac alāhā (“the god”). In either
        case, the Arabs used the word Allah for the supreme being before the time of
        Muhammad. Inscriptions with Allah have been discovered in Northern and
        Southern Arabia from as early as the fifth century b.c.5 Christians have used
        the word Allah from pre-Islamic times, and Allah has been used continuously
        in Arabic translations of the Bible from the earliest known versions in the
        eighth century to this day. One Arabic translation of the New Testament using
        the word may even be pre-Islamic.
        Jewish commentators writing
        in Arabic used Allah in their translations and citations. Sa´adiah Ga`on b.
        Joseph, a 9th-10th century a.d. Rabbanite translator of the Hebrew into Arabic
        (using Hebrew characters), used Allah for elohim.

        http://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/23_4_PDFs/Thomas.pdf

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      • Thanks JohnR.
        I understand some sites are less rigorous than others, yet many have sincere convictions, if poorly argued. I believe this topic shall remain in a certain degree of fog. Wiki itself is using the “allah is a contraction” argument – someone at wiki has thought about this as well obviously.
        When did alla become allah? How many definite article noun combinations/ composite objects in arabic have been contracted down? how many documents have variations on spelling of the same word within the one document? among which groups was allah a generic term for any god, or a generic term for a higher god, or a particular supreme god in a pantheon of gods without it being a proper noun, and among which groups was it, in our current sense of being, a proper noun name?

        I sent an email off to Wycliffe yesterday but would understand if they don’t want this sort of a distraction reviewing, what is, to them, old material.

        In one line of reasoning this is a hermeneutical question. Are there many gods. Brahma, Vishnu etc. in a koranic sense, god(s) as in ilah(s)? If there are “no gods” or “is no god” “except” “allah” – then allah in koranic hermeneutics is our modern equivalent of a proper Noun and not as it probably existed in generic reference to the “higher god” title of office, of older christian arab speaking references or arabic speaking jews, both of which would have recognized the existence of other gods of the pagan pantheons as pagans believed them to exist. Can anyone now know if it were a specific name in contra-distinction to a noun/ title of office meaning “a higher or the highest of the gods, like “supreme-chief”? Jews and Christians recognized YHWH Y_H as the specific revealed proper names of God.

        I find it personally impressive that native arab speaking copts are keen to now disambiguate “allah” from “god”; while various Christians seem unconcerned about the distinctions in actual meaning and consequence.

        Because arabic has no capital letters i’ve adopted that transliterational device for this reply and several other above here. Perhaps I shall take permanent leave of this topic till I meet some Copts who have looked at their oldest surviving documents lovingly.

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      • There are factual errors here. The pre-Islamic use of “Allah” was widely used in the polytheistic Arab communities. The reason that “Allah” became a name for the Judeo-Christian Jehovah was that Christian missionaries in the Middle East (late 2nd century-600 A.D.) used the name “El-Ilah” or “Allah” for the Arabs to understand that Jehovah was above their other gods. The use of “Allah” by Arab Christians in the early centuries after Christ ascended is attributable to lax missionary language in their attempt to get the polytheistic Arabs to understand a monotheistic God. Mohammed simply co-opted “El-Ilah” or “Allah” after this to help bring Arab polytheists into monotheism.

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      • Some of the biggest misconceptions have to do with the word “Allah.” For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God” – and there is only One God.However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims – like Jews – reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, does not mean that each of these three religions worships a different God – because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be “Abrahamic Faiths”, and all of them are also classified as “monotheistic

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      • Frank, I applaud your post!

        Also, it seems plain to me from the list above, where you can see variations of Theos, Dieu, and Gott in various languages, that El, Elohim, Eilah, Alla, etc, can be seen in the same light.

        In names like Nathani-el, Samu-el, the ‘el’ refers to God.

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      • how ‘liberalism’ and ‘feel good pluralism’ destroy souls and nations. The core of the arrogance is this: “The critical details of what the person thinks, their philosophical core,, the specific images of their gods or theories doesn’t matter, because we’re “plural” – and going to do things our way anyway”
        So the irony is I care more about what davinci and Dom really think than anyone here. Shallow lip service to inclusion is the antithesis of caring and understanding. The left ‘hate’ humans, full stop. Domination cloaked in ‘inclusion’ and ‘tolerance’. Diabolically destruction to marriages, nations, churches. The winners out of this are armies and banks. The results are a thousand schisms not understanding at all.

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    • 4 reasons the Christian right longs for the apocalypse

      While there’s much about the Christian right that’s difficult for the rest of us to understand, the preoccupation with the “end times” is close to the top of the list. The situation in Syria seems to be having the odd effect of amplifying this already strange tendency of fundamentalist Christians to cast around looking for evidence that they will be witness to the apocalypse.

      What makes this even weirder is how many of them want this to be true.

      1.They don’t think they’ll be around for the worst of it
      2.The end of the world would mean they get to have the last word.
      3. It provides a distraction from and an excuse to avoid the real problems in the world.

      http://www.salon.com/2013/10/15/4_reasons_the_christian_right_longs_for_the_apocalypse_partner/

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      • Lien,

        http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/

        a place called the Solomon Islands includes something called the Santa Cruz or Holy Cross in English
        Actual scientific statistical breakdown tells us we are experiencing anomalous increases in earthquake activity at the very time Jerusalem soon celebrates it’s 50th year of liberation – I say that somewhat tongue in cheek. If we be right we only have to be right once to have said, yes Lord, we kept watch, at your very instruction.

        Watch for Midnight.

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      • Predictions of the end of the world are nearly as old as the world itself. Charles Wesley, founder of the Methodists, was mightily embarrassed when his prediction of Doomsday in 1794 did not occur.

        In 1843, William Miller predicted the end of the world on April 3 and thousands gathered outside his home. Then Miller recalculated the date to July 7 and made a fortune selling white robes to his followers. When that date passed, he recalculated to March the next year, then the following October. By then, most of his followers had given up on him.

        In an event that became known as the Great Disappointment, many Adventists sold their homes, quit their jobs and waited on roofs of buildings for the expected Second Coming of Christ in 1844. Then Mormon church leaders wrongly predicted the end of the world for 1890 and 1891.

        According to the ancient Mayan calendar, December 12, 2012 was a date for the end.

        Leonardo da Vinci predicted the world would end on November 1, 4006.

        The disciples of Jesus were curious about the end times and once asked for a definitive date.

        Jesus said the end of the world would surely come but cautioned: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he’ and, ‘The time is near’. Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away

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      • nothwithstanding the straw man argument here, in defense of rather orthodox and pentecostal orthodoxy at that, it looks like right now is entering Tribulation times.
        Europes movements to cash less economy.
        The partial take down of the internet
        The earhquakes escalation over 50 yrs is not insignificant. if it continues these days will be dramatic
        Mother Shipton and Joe Brandt weren’t date setters, just reporting their observations……. even common reporters in a visions sense
        Similitude with Noah.. Lot are plethoric ………

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      • 3/3/2002—-This is what I heard (inner voice) the Lord say to me….

        “Hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of Hosts,
        My people shall be a people pure and holy who walk in My ways. The perverse and defiled shall not walk on My ‘Highway of Holiness.’

        Beware lest you think that I shall accept all who bear My Name, for the just shall live by faith and the way of man shall not prosper.

        Tarry not! Do not delay the day of repentance, for even now I have placed a mark on your foreheads……and you shall go on eating and drinking, and making merry, for you know not the time of My visitation.

        I have made a way for all who seek Me. It is straight and called holy. Heed My warning while there is still time.”

        Yes, I do believe that there will be a reaping……look around. It’s time to draw close to God.

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      • Yes I agree with this.
        Mena Lee Grebin reports ninety percent of people who call Jesus Lord won’t be celebrating His coming.

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      • Yeah right Phil. The same Mena Lee Grebin who said in 2014 silver price will be equal to gold price
        predicted economic collapse
        and war against Israel
        and that Russia invades usa
        and that parts of florida would be evacuated

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  7. If America became a Christian nation:

    – It would persecute everyone that did not agree with their brand of Christianity. Jesus made the comment that the time would come when people would persecute Christ’s disciples and believe that they are doing God’s service. Example of this was the persecution of people such as Roger Williams by the church establishment of his day, and the persecutions that the Anabaptists suffered because they did not adhere to the established religion of the day. I won’t mention what they will do to atheists, muslims or any other groups that did not fit their ideas of religion.

    – It would cease to be Christian, as Christ said that His kingdom is not of this world. There never has been concord between the principles of Christ’s and the world’s and never will be.

    – The doctrines and foundations upon which this “Christian Nation” was built on would look fine and noble on the outside, but when one digs deeper, one would find that they are meaningless. Example of this is the document “Catholics and Evangelicals Together”.

    – The Bible condemns slothfulness. In order to appear that they are fighting against poverty, a Christian nation would have to turn a blind eye to people that become poor due to their own obstinate stupidity.

    – Health Care a top priority under a Christian nation? Let’s see. Many of the levitical rules and regulations had no “foreshadow of things to come” but had a lot to do with maintaining health and hygiene. Yet the same Christian who actively teach people to disregard God ordained rules of maintaining basic health, talk about giving health a priority?

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    • davinci, I believe Iranaeus would disagree with you.

      As a man in your house would you set up a Christian set of rules to govern the house.

      Extrapolate from one single household to a collection of Christian houses together in one neighbourhood. Would those families band together in any way and try to run their little neighbourhood according to Christian principles?
      Now extrapolate to the nation.

      The separation of church and state is a figment of anti god imaginations. Dominion theology and trying to run your community on godly guidelines are two very very different things..

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      • No Phillip George, you have it all wrong.

        I might run my household along Christian principles, but I cannot run my neighbourhood along Christian principles. Namely because in my street I have muslims, Sikhs, atheists, etc. Same with my nation.

        Because we have a pluralistic society, the best we can do as Christians run the nation on issues that we have common with those who are unbelievers. Issues that do not depend on being a Christian or not.

        In my case that is engineering. Everyone needs clean water to drink. therefore I can develop policies and engineering practices to achieve this, by sitting down with Gnostics. Muslims, Satanists, etc.

        “The separation of church and state is a figment of anti god imaginations. Dominion theology and trying to run your community on godly guidelines are two very very different things.”

        Nonsense. Your kind had approximately 1300 years to demonstrate a “Christian Nation” system of government in Europe. Wasn’t long before heretics were burnt at the stake; wasn’t long before scientific advancement was suppressed because it did not fit in with the religious ideas of the day.

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      • Because we have a pluralistic society

        Where is it written in the laws of nature, natural law, or any revealed law of God, that this should be true or must be true?

        If, in your pluralistic commune, one group has the express or unexpressed intention of taking control and setting all laws according to their belief system is their any intention on your part to resist?

        You confuse humanism as an absolute obligation of government.

        eg. forced abortion, forced sterilization, forced vaccinations, forced euthanasia, no churches allowed [saudi arabia for example], one child policy etc etc. How does your pluralism engage with prohibitive totalitarianism. The “greens” might want a one child policy to save the planet – how will you comply?

        and as for suppression of science – it can be easily demonstrated that the coherent anthropic universe of protestant Christian nations gave rise to the exact explosion of ‘knowledge’ you falsely call science. Francis Bacon, Newton, Boyle – the biggest names in ‘science’, were bible reading protestant Christians for 200 plus years. In many an important way, they still lead. Christopher Monkton on AGW as an example of principled honest statistical science reporting.

        Christianity, according to Jesus was a tree that would fill the earth and “other” spirits would nest in it as well.
        We are not the “birds” to nest in a humanist/ masonic/ secular utopian tree.

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      • Iranaeus did you say Phillip George?

        If he’d stayed focused on what the Bible says about “friendship with the world” (google it) he would not have been attempting to politicise Christianity. Every bad mark against Christianity comes as a result of people like him.

        Jesus Christ told us to preach the gospel not politicise the gospel. Every time that the Christian Church made a political alliance it has resulted in some standard of righteousness within the church being compromised for political expediency.

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      • I didn’t say, Iranaeus, I typed it slowly – slower than usual for your sake. And I admit many historians would prefer reading his good friend, Irenaeus.

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      • Davinici, the apostle Peter, says a Royal Priesthood, a holy nation.

        priest and king recombined in one man like unto priest and king Melchizadek, hence, like unto Jesus. The church is meant to operate like a nation, We disagree so fundamentally I am amazed. You seem to have a touch not, taste not view of holiness. As if mud on your shoes could keep you from walking into a church or praying. lots of love, y’all.

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      • logic Mike, if it were “clear” to all you wouldn’t be saying it.
        People don’t walk out of their homes and say they encountered wet rain today.

        every who puts “obviously”/”clearly” into a sentence is doing so rhetorically.

        judge me if it raises your sense of self esteem.

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      • Phillip George

        You want to know where separation of church and state is stated in the Bible?

        Try this for starters:

        “Render unto God the things that are God’s and Caesar the things that are Caesar’s” (Jesus Christ).

        “1Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
        6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.” (Romans 13 : 1-6)

        Remember that the apostle Paul was ultimately put to death by the very same authorities that he told the Christians in Rome to respect.

        You want more:
        “5 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:5

        Ironically, this was the very Joshua that settled Israel in the Promised Land.

        And this:
        “And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.” 1 Kings 18:21.

        Ironically, Elijah was sent to Israel to effect a reformation.

        These all understood that you cannot forcibly bring into the Church the irreverent, the idol worshipper, the blasphemer and every other person that is disloyal to God.
        If you did, you would corrupt the church.

        Hence separation between church and state.

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      • I’ve done this “render unto caesar” before/ to the literary death I would have thought, here are main points
        1. Jesus is talking about common law property rights.
        2. There is no necessity for Caesar to be pagan, Christian, budhist, hindi – in the context of Jesus speech caesar could be any belief system.
        3. As a holy nation how do you and your fellow kings regulate each other.
        4. The Vatican is a nation state and religious theocracy / I would reform it not abolish it
        5. Do you question Saudi Arabia’s right to exist as Islamic state?
        6. You cannot force a man to accept Jesus but while in your personal kingdom, you are a king, you can prevent him from copulating on the front lawn of your house or walking away with barrow loads of your possessions.
        7. the Ten Commandments can be written into most constitutions without objections to anyone but rank fools, because everything about them is universally good. God designed a wording which makes them universally practical. I can imagine a satanist could live with them comfortably.
        8. Other gods, in the context of Elijah, means Not YHWH. By promoting secularism, humanism, you are declaring neutrality over the ground which belongs to God Almighty,
        YHWH.
        9. If you are not a king in your own household how can Jesus be your King?
        10. Salt of the earth means you are to be the spice in every field of human endeavour, informing sciences, jurisprudence, history, art, politics – there isn’t a topic Christianity doesn’t inform – including sexual health and mental health – and emotional freedom from every addiction.
        11. Pure secularism, purely rational apriori scientific endeavour/neutrality, humanism, moral relativism, cultural relativism are optical illusions, fuzzy logic indescribables – they don’t exist. You are now being taxed to fund anti god propaganda. Christians have largely lost history battles because they didn’t even show up for a contest.
        12 How do you now relate to Caesar once he has accepted/ converted to Christianity? Must Caesar resign for accepting Christ or is he simply being unlawfully harrassed and hounded out of office in today’s market of anti god ideology.

        I could go on but, I don’t believe you are here to read.

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      • I could go on but, I don’t believe you are here to read.

        I think this sums it up nicely.

        Does this sound like something Jesus pbuh would say to people or Satan ?

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      • Dom,

        what is one thing in the bible, recorded in the Gospel, one sentence, that Jesus didn’t say, or thing He didn’t do – that you claim didn’t happen as recorded?

        Take one sentence away if you will Dom.

        Your Prophet tells you Jesus didn’t die on the cross. Claim one sentence in the Holy bible that never got said from Jesus’ own mouth – which the bible claims He said.

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      • Things Jesus Never said

        1. No shirt, no shoes, no service.

        Jesus never gave prerequisites for encountering his love. Regardless of your past, the love of Christ is available for anyone who is willing to accept it. Nobody is too flawed for forgiveness and eternal salvation.

        2. Follow me, and I will bring you fame and fortune.

        Jesus never promises fame or fortune, yet these are also not things he opposes if used for his glory. If your reasoning for seeking a relationship with God is material focused, you may want to evaluate what god you’re really yearning for.

        3. Everything will go according to your plans.

        Many of us pray to Jesus thinking that everything we ask of Him is going to be answered in our timing. The reality is that not all prayers will be answered, but that Jesus does have the power to fulfill any prayer that is asked of him. He’s that BIG! Just because a prayer isn’t answered in your timing does not mean your prayer has been ignored. God hears all, knows all, and knows what’s best for each of us as individuals. Take a step back and trust in God, his timing, and his will.

        4. I will bless you if you pray hard enough.

        The blessing of prayer is in prayer itself. Communication and dialogue between our heavenly father is more fulfilling than anything else we can ask for. Jesus isn’t a magic genie, and if your prayers seem more like wishes than heart-felt conversations, you may want to re-think how your foundation of faith is being built.

        5. Life is going to be without rough patches

        So many people think that just because they believe in Jesus means everything is going to be flawless and perfect. This really isn’t the case at all. You may have a relationship with Jesus, but this doesn’t mean life is going to stop moving forward, tough circumstances are going to cease to exist, and rough times will never be a possibility. Even though Jesus never said life would be easy, he did say he would be there for you in your times of need. The message of The Gospel isn’t that life will be perfect, but that in it’s imperfection we have a perfect and flawless Savior.

        6. I will answer prayers on your time.

        Although God is faithful in his answering of prayer, we cannot expect him to answer every prayer to our exact measurements. Faith is trusting God even when things don’t make sense, and that includes a prayer that we feel may be unanswered or at the wrong time. Faith is trusting in God’s timing, not ours.

        7. You’re too far gone to be saved.

        Nobody is too far traveled from having a relationship with God. No matter where life has brought you, you always have the opportunity to look next to you and see the open arms of Jesus. The forgiveness and love that He offers is not something we can run from, nor become too dirty to accept.

        8. You deserve to have nice things.

        Jesus never said you deserve a huge house, nice car, big paycheck, and a sweet job. In fact, everything in The Gospel points to simplicity rather than luxury. This isn’t to say that you’re not allowed to have nice things, but that Jesus didn’t promise you are going to be given them. God’s plan for each of our lives is different, and we need to understand that not everyone is going to make the same amount of money, drive the same types of cars, or even live in the same type of housing.

        What we needed to understand is that Jesus did say we need to love our neighbors, help those who are in need, and that the widow and homeless deserve to be loved as Christ loved The Church.You don’t deserve to have nice things, but you do get to experience the love of Christ, and that worth more than anything this world can offer.

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      • A message (or prophecy) that should be acknowledged by philipgeorge.
        “Give other Christians permission to be different from you. You’re not the only Christ-follower in the world, and neither are you the most committed. Your way of loving Jesus is neither the only way for the best. If you don’t know that, your Christian world is way too small.”
        ― Will Davis Jr., 10 Things Jesus Never Said: And Why You Should Stop Believing Them

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    • I wanted davinci to get this point:-

      Let me remind you again that there is no more anti-human force in all the world than secular humanism and its boot-licking slave, liberal politics. a quote

      ….with the separation of church and state mene, the liberal churches have unleashed satan himself.

      and i think we are a hair breadth away from the worst days the world has ever seen.

      separation of church and state is the laziest bit of theology ever, IHMO. but when hundreds of millions have died this blog won’t have amounted to a tin of beans washed away by a tsunami.

      my pathetic little missives are less than spit in the wind- ah, but, they helped me to focus on Jesus. Glory to Him. so thanks for your comment – but you didn’t see what I meant.

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  8. “If, in your pluralistic commune, one group has the express or unexpressed intention of taking control and setting all laws according to their belief system is their any intention on your part to resist?”

    Answer : Why is the Australian Christian Lobby here and similar organisations in America fighting for political control along religious frameworks? Why are we even entertaining the speculation on what America would look like as a Christian nation?

    Answer : Whether I resist or not depends on whether the said belief systems compel me to behave in a way that is contrary to the revealed will of God.

    “eg. forced abortion, forced sterilization, forced vaccinations, forced euthanasia, no churches allowed [saudi arabia for example], one child policy etc etc. How does your pluralism engage with prohibitive totalitarianism. The “greens” might want a one child policy to save the planet – how will you comply?”

    Answer: Who is forcing you to comply with these things Phillip George? Have you been forcibly sterilized? Are you the victim of forced abortion? Have you or your family been forced into one child policy? Is your freedom to worship restricted in any way in the west?

    Answer: How will I comply? Jesus made it clear that we are not to borrow trouble from tomorrow when He said that each day has its own trouble (Mat. 6:34).

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    • forced vaccinations are here already. I mean forced as in coercion.

      we are forced to pay for halal certification.

      to the jews a concentration camp came as gradually warming water does to a boiling frog

      disarmament was for us was a boiling frog issue.

      Molly Norris is metaphorically dead and Islam will take over city hall and ban chuches if a Christian’s only attitude is religion and politics are separate.

      PhillipGeorge( royal priest)

      your comment about don’t worry about tomorrow is always valid though and I appreciate the reminder

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    • yes, for twenty years Joe Brandt’s dream has been on my mind. I’ve read or listened to it a dozen times. The 526 AD Antioch Church quake shall happen again. That Spring time thing hiding other springs.
      That 15 MAY isn’t just a date – keep looking at it. Rick Joyner is telling Christians with an ear, and let’s face it, to Jesus ears were also a metaphor, to get out,to leave now, unless God is telling you to stay.
      here’s Mother Shipton describing this blog
      And Christian one fights Christian two And nations sigh, yet nothing do

      As I say, Josephus chronicles Jesus’ 39 year old warning of destruction coming to pass. The Russian bear defends Easter Orthodox Christianity.
      So IS May, was a word to someone else watching successive May day events,
      And I maintain records for geotechnical are being broken right now. Which makes no difference to the Himalaya’s sinking three feet and 7000 odd dead Nepalese.

      So which 100 percent prophets were you wanting me to read? U know I only wanted your list as a matter of investigative discovery/ spirit guide’s maybe?

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      • Yes Mon, Apparently some self-proclaimed ones dealing in psychobabble certainly can.
        As someone said “Once you create a self-justifying storyline, your emotional entrapment within it quadruples.”

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      • what yr was it you read Revelation from start to finish?

        and Jesus says, look up for what reason? or none at all?

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  9. Whether God is called Bob or Bill is not the issue. The description of God in Zkoran is not the biblical one. The Koran denies Jesus. It calls Abraham and moses as muslim not Jewish. The Koran does not describe God as loving. God is loving in the Bible. Christians who say Allah and Jehovah are the same just have not read the Koran, are decieved or just being politically correct.

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    • Concepts of God differ. God does not change.

      But that’s monotheism for you, isn’t it? Where one God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

      Like

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