What if God….?

THE Rev John Hudson, a New York minister, once imagined God appearing in the heavens and ordering all religions founded in His name to immediately take a long overdue rest.
In this vision, God speaks to the religious leaders, sternly reminding them that he had given them the ability to think, choose and imagine. But the minute I turn my back, you all start fighting crusades and jihads, says the God of Rev Hudson’s imagining.
Citing the conflict in the Middle East as the last straw, God sends the religious leaders, with their flocks, to their room so they can sit and think about what they’ve done. They are not allowed to take their mobile phones, iPads or computers with them.
Eventually, the clerics realize the error of their ways and use their energies to halt global war and wipe out poverty and disease.
Its a nice tale. So is another I heard of.
In this one, God issues a recall of all currently functioning humanity after centuries of complaints that something is seriously wrong with the human race.
In his announcement, God categorically says the recall is not the result of the manufacturers defect. It is simply humanity’s refusal to follow the manufacturer’s operating instructions.
Thus, the warranty on human beings is universally void.
But God declares he has extended the warranty on humans way beyond what the law requires, He offers the warranty to all who admit they didn’t follow the manufacturers instructions and promise, in the future, to do so.
Despite the unprecedented offer, it is greeted with derision in many quarters. Some think the offer is just too good to be true. There must be a trick,
So God respects the freedom of choice, allowing some to accept and others to reject his offer. He doesn’t force people either way.

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26 thoughts on “What if God….?

  1. “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
    They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,”……Acts 16:30-31

    “There can be a big difference between believing with our minds and believing with our hearts though. The belief that is required for salvation is more than just an intellectual assent to the facts. To believe with our heart is to believe with our lives.

    Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6). The way is not a formula, but a Person. Knowing the truth is more than just having accurate doctrines—it is knowing a Person who must also be our life. If Jesus is not our life, we really do not know the way or the truth either. Salvation is much more than just agreeing that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world—it is embracing the cross and trusting in His atonement for the forgiveness of our own sin.

    No one is going to be saved because they live in a “Christian” country. No one is going to be saved because they have a parent who knows the Lord. No one is even going to be saved because they go to church, or even because they were baptized, unless they have a personal faith in Him, and His blood is applied to their life. We must each have our own faith, and our own relationship to the Lord. If we do, the evidence of what has taken place in our hearts will be clearly seen on the outside of our lives as well.

    If you have been in church all of your life, and know very well all of the doctrines of salvation, but have never actually been born again by having a personal encounter with the Son of God, you can do so right now. All you have to do is humble yourself and confess your sins to God. Then ask Him to forgive you and cover you in the blood of His Son’s sacrifice, knowing that there is nothing you can do to make atonement for yourself, but also knowing that His sacrifice is sufficient to cover your sins. This simple faith will allow you to be accepted by the Father into His own household. Then ask Him for the baptism in the Holy Spirit, who was given to lead us into all truth, so we might live lives that glorify the Son of God, by displaying the power of His sacrifice in our lives.”……. Rick Joyner, of Morning Star Ministries

    I’d always felt ‘not really saved’. Coming from a Catholic background that’s easy to understand. Even as recently as four or five years ago, I went to a Catholic healing service and was told when I went forward for prayer, that I was going to Hell. The minister didn’t tell me why though, just condemned me to Hell. Step into my boots and imagine how I must have felt? I had no inner conviction that it was true, mind, but what if it was? It’s terrible to truly love the Lord and to not really ever know if you’re going to Heaven to be with the One you love.

    Then one day when I had attended another prayer meeting, the Holy Spirit’s tangible healing power overcame me and I was what is known as, “slain in the Spirit”. It just means that I could no longer stand in God’s (spiritual) presence and fell down on the carpet. As I lay there I was aware of people praying over me and I’ll never forget one woman saying to me that when she looked at me laying on the floor, that all she could see (in the spirit; a vision) was that I was absolutely covered in blood; awash in it, in fact, to the point that she could not see me at all, only the Blood.

    At first that horrified me. What did she mean, I wondered. But then another woman gave me the answer straight away. “Oh my God”, she said. “That’s the atoning blood of the Lord Jesus Christ that was shed on the cross at Calvary she is covered in!”……..Romans 4:7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.”

    “His sacrifice is enough to cover all of your sins, to redeem you from the bondage of sin, and to give you eternal life. As we begin to comprehend this, we are transformed by the power of such great love.”

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    • Davinci, your words here >>>>Do we believe that divorce and remarriage is condemned by God (see Mat. 5:32), or do we split away from the mother church and start a new religion as Henry the Eighth did?>>>>>

      You are davinci, very much out of touch with history again here. What Henry VIII asked for, was an Annulment and not a Divorce. It was not an unknown thing, and there were plenty of precedents. Pope Alexander VI’s own daughter Lucrezia, after three years of an abundantly consummated marriage was granted an annulment, as a fatherly favour presumably. Then Henry’s own sister Margaret, Queen of Scotland was granted an annulment on the flimsiest of grounds.

      At first there was every indication that Pope Clement VII would grant Henry an annulment in the same way, as Henry had already been allowed a special dispensation from the Pope to marry Catherine in the first place. But Catherine’s nephew, Emperor Charles V had a specific hold over the Pope, and after an extraordinarily long delay during which the Pope prevaricated, the political decision was made to deny the annulment. We can well note that if it had been simply a ruling about Catholic teaching (on Divorce) there would have been virtually no delay.

      There is much more that could be cited on the history of divorce and annulment in the Catholic Church, but I wont go into it now. But please, old mate, dont go holding up the Catholic Church of those Renaissance times as being well in touch with your concept of Gospel teaching. The Catholic Church maintains a discreet silence regarding the facts on Henry’s so-called divorce.

      Rian.
      (References.. Catholic Divorce by Hegy and Martos; and other books.

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  2. That depends on how you read the manufacturer’s instructions doesn’t it Bryan?

    For example, the Bible is specific that when God created the world, it was in 7 literal days (and the evening and the morning was the first day, the second day, etc). Or do we believe that these were 7 allegorical days? Do we believe what the Bible says, or do we fear ridicule, persecution, political correctness and thus we ignore the Manufacturer’s instructions?

    Do we believe that divorce and remarriage is condemned by God (see Mat. 5:32), or do we split away from the mother church and start a new religion as Henry the Eighth did?

    Finally do we regard some manufacturer’s instructions irrelevant and non important or do we believe that we live not by bread alone “but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God”, regardless of how much desperate we are for food and drink.

    See, Bryan it is easy to talk about following the manufacturer’s instructions. The Jews did it at Sinai when they said “All that the Lord has said we will do”, then committed sin with the golden calf within 40 days.

    Unless one recognises that we need the manufacturer’s help and assistance in following His instructions, we are stuffed. That was the case with the Old Covenant and will be the case with many under the New Covenant.

    We are stuffed because it is only a crisis that shows how well we’ve followed the manufacturer’s instructions. When Jesus said that the house that was built on a rock stood the test, it was a storm that revealed how well the builder had followed instructions dealing with building something that would last.

    Thus our prayer should be to watch and pray that we enter into temptation. Paul says “let him that thinks he stands, take care lest he fall”. As much as I know the manufacturer and His instructions I also know that one is never ready for the test when it comes. Unless one relies for strength from the manufacturer Himself to make one withstand the test.

    And ignoring some instructions as being trivial, is not the way to prepare to endure the test of faith when it will come.

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      • well Bryan,
        I’d just dearly love to see you debating this question of the 7 days with any persons who while being as devout as yourself, hold the opposite view. When Christians simply cant agree among themselves on such simplest of questions, it’s surely no wonder that we dissenters stand back and marvel with a bit of a despairing smile on our faces. I’m still waiting patiently for that day with all Christians will unite in a common understanding and agreement of the crucial qualifications for salvation. There actually appears to be not a single set of beliefs and practices held by any Christians which is not condemned and cast out as heresy by some other Christian group.

        Rian.

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      • Care to explain why?
        The Bible ends each day’s creation with the statement that there was a morning and evening indicating a 24 hour period.
        Secondly, you have the Sabbath Commandment which is spoken by God Himself and refers specifically to a week consisting of 7 literal days, six of which are assigned for man’s work, the seventh being assigned as a Holy Day. How on earth can you say that God does not mean what He says, then make a big speech about people following the manufacturer’s specifications?

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      • There are seven periods of creation recorded in the beginning of Genesis. Although each of these has been translated as a “day”, the Hebrew word is “yom” which simply means a period of time with a beginning and an ending.

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      • So a day is not a period of time with a beginning and an ending? Here is a clue. The “yom” described in genesis is explained as being consisting of an evening and a morning. The jews understood that this referred to a 24 hour period in their observance of the Sabbath from sunset to sunset, and in their counting of what constitutes a day (sunset to sunset).

        You can play all the semantics you like, this tactic is still a form of disobeying the manufacturer’s specifications..

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      • Genesis primarily reveals God as Creator. Could God have created it all in seven days? Of course. He could have created it in one instant.
        Was it seven literal days? I don’t know but neither do you. Whether He did nor not is hardly relevant to the belief that God is the creator of all.

        Early Christian views on the “seven days” were wildly divergent. As someone wrote to me privately today, Some said only a few days; others argued for a much longer, indefinite period. Those who took the latter view appealed to the fact “that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (2 Pet. 3:8; cf. Ps. 90:4), that light was created on the first day, but the sun was not created till the fourth day (Gen. 1:3, 16), and that Adam was told he would die the same “day” as he ate of the tree, yet he lived to be 930 years old (Gen. 2:17, 5:5).

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      • Did Jesus believe in a six-day creation and a literal Adam? We don’t know. He simply did not fully address the question of how we are to interpret Genesis, or if he did, the record is not preserved. And I believe there’s a reason for that: It’s not important. , Jesus very clearly does not seem to think a literal view of Genesis is necessary to live a godly life according to his teachings. If he thought otherwise, then he would have said so.

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      • Actually I do know whether God created the world in seven literal days. Because He told us so in connection with the Sabbath.

        If He didn’t mean what He said in Genesis, why should we believe what He says between Genesis and Revelation? You spoke very eloquently about God holding us responsible for the way we respond to the manufacturer’s instructions. How can we respond properly to a manufacturer’s instructions if we believe that we don’t and we can’t know what these instructions mean?

        Your reference to early Christians holding divergent views on Genesis, indicate that your manufacturer’s instructions are not based on “Thus said the Lord” but rather thus said this or that church father.

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      • You are assuming it was an Earth day. An Earth day is 24 hours. A day on Venus is 243 Earth days. Judgement day is 50,000 Earth years long. Could the day be associated with an orbit of a planet or could it be an era.

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      • Davinci, in Queen Victoria’s day many things happened, because her day lasted for so many years. Each day of creation would surely be longer. As far as each day having a morning and an evening, why not? Each period has a dawning, a full on stage, a twilight, and a closing.

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    • Oh davinci,
      I notice, talking of temptation etc, that you havent made any attempt to answer my question from the other day regarding that pesky serpent in the Garden of Eden. Was it just too hard for you? Can you find no ready-made answer to that one anywhere in the Bible or in your own church guidelines?

      Mind you, I wouldnt really mind if anyone else had a go at it. i’ve actually got several pages I’ve typed out, of sticky questions and problems with the Adam and Eve story. That is one of the simplest ones, I guess.

      Rian.

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      • thanks for checking, davinci,
        I had to look back and note that you can find my question dated at 23.45 on Jan15th, in the discussion headed Terrorism will not win. You had made some statement about the snake in Eden and its punishment.. I wait with interest.

        Rian.

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      • davinci,
        Well, I notice that a couple of days later, you’ve still made no attempt to answer my question about the snake. I can only presume that it is just too hard for you.

        I’d still be most interested if anyone else on this blog can give me a resolution to it. Anybody?

        Rian

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      • Bryan,
        We non-Christians do wonder at times. I sometimes get a little image coming unbidden into my mind, of a Christian type God looking down onto the earth and indignantly instructing a recording angel in some such words as these “Just look down over there! There is a fellow who is not praising me and telling me just how wonderful I am. Make a record of his name. We must keep an eye on him!”

        But I guess that is not good Christian theology, but we do wonder…….

        Rian.

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      • I’m curious as to how the God / religion relationship is perceived.
        Is it co-dependent – do God and religion each need the other
        Is it symbiotic – do God and religion each obtain a positive benefit from the presence of the other
        Or is it parasitic – does religion merely feed off God

        Or is it none of the above

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      • “I sometimes get a little image coming unbidden into my mind, of a Christian type God looking down onto the earth and indignantly instructing a recording angel in some such words as these “Just look down over there! There is a fellow who is not praising me and telling me just how wonderful I am. Make a record of his name. We must keep an eye on him!””

        You’re so off the mark Rian 🙂

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      • Hi Mon,
        Ah no, if you read carefully, I didnt say that my facetious quote was actually a belief of mine. It just means that hearing and reading what I sometimes get from Christians gives me an image like that. And of course it followed on from Bubba’s question about whether the Christian God likes or needs religion. I did make the point at the end that I am aware that it is not any form of Christian doctrine.

        For me of course,The God is far far above such considerations. But my God is not very much like the Christian Deity.

        Rian.

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  3. I found the true story of the 10 commandments interesting. Apparently Moses was finding it difficult to ‘dispose’ of them …. first he went to the Romans. “What’s a commandment?” They asked. “Thou shalt not commit adultery…” replied Moses.
    The Romans decided that would completely stuff up their orgies on long weekends, so they gave them a miss. Next he went to the Egyptians. “What’s a commandment” they asked.
    “Thou shalt not steal” replied Moses. The Egyptians decided it would ruin their slavery and business trade and rejected the commandments. He finally approached the Jews ….

    “How much are they?” asked the Jews. “They’re free …” replied Moses.

    “We’ll take 10 …” said the Jews.

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