God is not Catholic, says Pope

catholic111

The 76-year-old Argentinean pontiff Francis gace a frank interview to Eugenio Scalfari, the atheist co-founder and former editor of news magazine LaRepubblica.

Scalfari was surprised to get the exclusive interview with the pope in the first place, but even more suprised at the pope’s comments.

“I believe in God, not in a Catholic God, ” said Francis. “There is no Catholic God, there is God and I believe in Jesus Christ, his incarnation. Jesus is my teacher and my pastor, but God, the Father, Abba, is the light and the Creator. This is my Being. Do you think we are very far apart?”

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33 thoughts on “God is not Catholic, says Pope

  1. Looking to Jesus as a teacher but looking to God the Father as the ultimate authority – this is a more healthy outlook than the strong Jesus idolatry that seems quite common within Christian faith.

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      • Absolutely, often those who claim to be Christians put their worshipping focus on Jesus rather than God the Father. In this case, Jesus is made an idol. Jesus even speaks against this in the Bible.

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      • Bible says twice that Jesus was accused of being God
        But he denied it, because in these two instances, when charged, in the one case, with making himself God, and in the other, with making himself equal with God, he denied the charges.

        In reply to the charge of being an equal with God, he says immediately:
        ‘The son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do’; and directly after ‘I can of mine own self do nothing.’ (John 5:19, 30)

        In answer to the charge of making himself God, he appeals to the Jews in substance thus: Your own Scriptures call Moses a god, and your magistrates gods; I am surely not inferior to them, yet I did not call myself God, but only the ‘son’ of God (John 10:34-36).

        ‘Ye are the children of the Lord your God’ (Deuteronomy 14:1)
        In a more exclusive way we see Adam: ‘Adam, which was the son of God.’ (Luke 3:38)
        Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22)

        Solomon: ‘I will be his father, and he shall be my son.’ (2 Samuel 7:13-14)

        Ephraim: ‘for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.’ (Jeremiah 31:9)

        Surely Jesus as a man is worthy of great honour in bringing God’s message to the world, such a difficult task for a human? Would be quite a bit easier for a God appearing here pretending to be a man yet with supreme power, putting on an act!
        Worship can be defined as “to honor and love as a deity,”
        but also “to regard with.”

        I regard Jesus with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. I worship him.

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      • Oops!
        That last bit should read-

        Surely Jesus as a man is worthy of great honour in bringing God’s message to the world, such a difficult task for a human? Would be quite a bit easier for a God appearing here pretending to be a man yet with supreme power, putting on an act!
        Worship can be defined as “to honor and love as a deity,”
        but also “to regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion..”

        I regard Jesus with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. I worship him.

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      • “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

        ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

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      • Monica,
        Yep that was a classic bit of CS Lewis. And it only goes to demonstrate that his apologetic Christian writings were specifically directed at persons who were already Christians.

        Anyone other than a Christian would find it either funny or insulting to be told by Lewis that there is one definition of Jesus that they ‘must not’ apply. As has been pointed out many times, Lewis’ limited and glib affirmation that Jesus is either Liar Lunatic or Lord has been demolished many times. (Another version is that He is either Mad Bad or God). I know of at least three or four other alternatives as well.

        However improved over Lewis some of the modern Apologists may be, they are still not impregnable against repudiation.

        Cheers, Rian.

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    • Jasonjshaw
      Why do you think we were given the name Christians in the first place? Could it have been for the reason that we worship Jesus Christ as God?

      Jesus idolatry quite common in the Christian faith? You mean there are Christians that don’t worship Christ and are still called Christian?

      Do you even engage brain into gear when you write garbage like this?

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      • Have you even read the Bible and noted that Jesus specifically points not to himself, but to God the Father more often than not? If Christians are paying attention to their Holy book, the idea is to follow Jesus, not worship him.

        The opposite seems to happen quite significantly though, where Jesus is worshipped and not followed. I find this to be quite troubling.

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      • davinci,
        I dont think you know your early Church history, when there were many forms of Christianity, and probably most of them did not believe that Jesus was the God.
        Most obvious of these were the Arians. they worshipped the same as the orthodox; they read the same scriptures, and certainly venerated the same Jesus Christ. But they did not accord him the rank of ultimate deity.

        Rian

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    • Strewth, you bring about a good point! Jesus denying Godliness which would therefore either render God as a liar, or Jesus as not God.

      Surely Christians wouldn’t want to be worshiping a lying God – but that seems to be how it often goes.

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      • C.S. Lewis neglected a further option – that Jesus was an illusionist who sought to bring about changes that would serve humanity. Sure, it’s a bit crazy, but Jesus could very well have prepared for it for well over a decade (the say about 18 years of Jesus’ life is absent from the Bible), which meant he could have been working with more calculated risks.

        The key evidence being that Jesus made sure he was crucified the day before a Sabbath so he wouldn’t be left hanging for too long. It just seems too convenient to not have been planned.

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      • Actually JasonJshaw the whole plan of salvation was pre-planned between Christ and the Father.Revelation 13:8 talks about the Lamb of God having been slain from the foundation of the world. This is one of the indications that Jesus’ sacrifice was pre planned. Another key point in the line of evidence that indicates pre-planning was the sacrificial system whereby Jesus was prefigured in the sacrifices slain for the sins of the people. And a third would be the messianic promise that the seed of the woman will destroy the serpent, but not before the serpent would do some damage to the aforementioned seed.

        This still does not prove that Jesus worship is an act of idolatry. Jesus’ last command to His disciples was to go and preach the gospel in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

        And Jesus’ last speech before the crucifixion talks about the Holy Spirit being a the Vicar of Christ, in other words Jesus would work for the world vicariously through the Holy Spirit.

        Which brings us back to the topic of whether God is a Catholic God or not. According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit is the only one who can be entitled Vicarius Christi or Vicar of Christ.

        For the pope to give himself this title, means not only that God is Catholic, but God is under the control and subject to the pope as the term Vicarius Christi is made by the pope not God.

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      • Some people would believe Lewis over Jesus. I have no problem with that. Lewis served God well, and if you’re meant to be on that path to God, so be it.

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      • davinci,
        there are a lot of objections I could raise to your posting here Nov.21 at 15.35, but one stands out that is easily repudiated.

        You fall into the old old St Jerome trap of saying that the Seed of the Woman would destroy the Serpent. This is simply not legitimately to be found in the text. Presumably you are not aware of the fact that the verse uses the identical verb when describing how the Serpent will ‘strike’ at the heel, and the heel will ‘strike’ at the Serpent. Jerome chose to prop up the Catholic teaching with the incorrect translation which stated that the Serpent would strike at the heel, while the heel would ‘Crush’ the Serpent. Not true. Just one of the many improper readings from the Jewish Scriptures that are manipulated to demonstrate false prophecies.

        It is agreed by most scholars that the ‘final command’ of Jesus to preach the Gospel in the threefold name, is an interpolation, and was never in the original.
        I must say I just love your description of the ‘preplanning’ done by the Father and Jesus long in advance on the method of Salvation. So the heavenly committee in Heaven had a friendly chat about it, and after dismissing a number of alternatives decided that this was the best way???? Actually as I recall my Theology, it is regarded as completely mistaken to picture the Holy Trinity as a consulting committee.

        I recall a Presbyterian minister commenting in his lecture that ‘God was faced with the problem of how to forgive sin’. Wow. So this worried omnipotent deity sat down and pondered over a huge problem??? A God with a problem??? So ‘He’ sets up a scheme for mankind that has just so many flaws and necessary failures to it; and then has to struggle to create a solution that will necessarily still leave most of the human failures as lost and wasted.

        Oh by the way, davinci, are you going to answer my question from the other day, when I asked you if you would describe an Islamic individual who converts to Christianity as a ‘Traitor to Islam’? It would be logical, if I am to be labeled as a Traitor to Christianity?.
        Cheers, Rian. (reputedly a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing, a False Prophet, and a Hypocrite whose hypocrisy knows no bounds)

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      • Well there you go……God in fact left the Catholics in charge!! He must be really upset with Pope Francis for denying this.
        Keep forgetting that upbringing I had ” only Catholics go to Heaven”.

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  2. Must We Believe Jesus is God?
    Greg Koukl
    Stand to Reason

    If you believe in Christ but reject His unique deity, you might have a very nice religion, but can you call it Christianity?

    “I don’t think that a person can repudiate the deity of Christ and call themselves a Christian because I think that the notion of the deity of Christ–God becoming man, God in three persons, one essence–is an essential defining doctrine of the faith. In other words, if you reject an essential or defining doctrine then you cannot call yourself by the title that is defined by these doctrines.

    Every word has a definition and usually the definition entails a couple of different things that make the full definition, and if the details are not there, you can’t apply the word. The same is true of “Christian.” The word Christian and being a Christian entails a couple of particular things historically. One of those particular things is that you believe in the unique deity of Jesus Christ–the Trinity, God become man, Jesus Christ being fully God and fully man, two natures, one person. If you reject that, you might have a very nice religion, but you just don’t have Christianity. So in that sense you can’t be a Christian and reject the deity of Christ.

    There are some fundamental things you have got to have right about God or at least not be willing to repudiate. You can learn them, but once you repudiate them you are repudiating the very God you are saying you are seeking to worship. This is a God who is one God in essence and in substance, but has three persons, Father, Son and the Spirit; and the second person, called the Logos in John 1, takes on humanity, becomes a real man such that Jesus Christ is one person with two natures–the full nature of divinity and the full nature of humanity. And if you reject such a thing, I don’t see how you can then say I have put my faith in Jesus because the Jesus that you put your faith in is not the Jesus of the Scriptures, and it is only the Jesus of the Scriptures who really saves you.

    So I think that it’s actually very critical and I think it’s important to point out that Paul himself talked about another Jesus that was preached that some unfortunately accept, but a Jesus that is contrary to the Jesus of Scriptures. In fact, Jesus warned in Matthew 24 that one characteristic of the end times is the fact that false messiahs would come and claim to be someone special and mislead many. And I think that false messiahs are individuals who claim to be messiah or else substitute definitions for the Jesus of Scripture. I think the denial of the deity of Christ is such a substitution.

    The Scripture teaches clearly not only that any old god won’t do–and we see that in statements like Exodus 20:2-3, “I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.” The first commandment in fact. We must have the correct God before us. By the same token, any old Jesus won’t do either. Jesus says in John 8:24, “Unless you believe that I Am, you shall die in your sins.” According to Jesus it was very critical that we have a particular belief about him, and if we don’t then we are lost in our sins.

    It isn’t enough to simply believe in Him. And by the way, that text in John 8 is when Jesus was addressing particular people who had believed in Him in some fashion. But one needs to have an accurate belief in Jesus, not just any belief in Jesus in order for the true Christ to be their savior. I think that those are very critical distinctions and we have to hold to those if the word Christian is going to continue to mean something in particular and not just any religious thought that has to do with some man or any man named Jesus.”

    CBN.com

    Yep, I agree!

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      • Strewth, I think that is a wise approach. Accepting the title of Christian seems to demonstrate a pride of belief, which is hypocritical to the Christian faith which focuses on being humble.

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      • A “pride of belief” Jason?

        I would have thought that someone who claims to ‘follow and worships Jesus’, telling Christians that Jesus is NOT God, displays much more pride than any ‘Christian’ can ever do declaring their ‘belief’/Christianity to others. I mean, I became a Christian because I truly believe Jesus to be GOD THE SON who is sinless and able to take away the sin of the world. That is the very essence of my faith in Jesus Christ. Without my belief in His divinity, my Christian identity would be worthless.

        Only GOD can pardon sin……Mark 2:7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

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  3. Christ (/kraɪst/; ancient Greek: Χριστός, Christós, meaning “anointed”)is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ) and the Syriac ܡܫܝܚܐ (M’shiha), the Messiah.
    We in a democracy routinely “anoint” people to lead us to a better way of life and then tire of them when they say and do things that make us unhappy – Crucifixion due in just over 1 week!

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    • Of course at the end of the day the disputes are all about words written by MEN and presented to us as ‘Scripture’. It seems many demands for people to have faith is really just saying you MUST see it my way or your wrong.
      the moral outrage expressed at someones disagreement of your views –

      “Huh? Do you even know what you’re talking about?”

      “I think not Mon!”

      “Do you even engage brain into gear when you write garbage like this?”

      Not taken as a challenge but an affront. Oh well, at least nobody has issued a Fatwa calling for Jason to be brought to justice!

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      • “written by MEN” who were inspired by God to be a witness to the truth, Michael.

        And if you were indeed a true disciple of Jesus Christ, you would already know that.

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      • So say you Monica and as were so many of the other religious texts that lay claim to this. So now god inspires nobody, just stopped at the Bible then?
        And for the record I’m a disciple of no religion – plenty of dead lemmings at the bottom of a cliff.

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