Presbyterian Church Votes To Allow Gay Marriage

ANERICA’S largest Presbyterian denomination has voted to change its definition of marriage and allow its pastors to officiate same-sex ceremonies in states where gay marriage is legal.

By a vote of 429-175, leaders of the 1.76 million-member Presbyterian Church (USA) voted during the biennial General Assembly to change the denomination’s Book of Order to describe marriage as being between “two people.”

The decision opens a path toward gay marriage across the denomination’s 10,000 churches.

This change will not become church law until a majority of the 172 regional presbyteries vote to ratify the new language. But given the lopsided 3-1 ratio of the vote, approval is expected.

Under the new rules, pastors who do not want to preside over gay weddings are not obligated to, and the change applies only in the 19 states and the District of Columbia where same-sex civil marriage is legal.

The nation’s largest churches — Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, Mormon, United Methodist and most evangelical churches — recognize marriage only as between a man and a woman, though many Methodists are pushing for a change. The Episcopal Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the United Church of Christ all allow same-sex marriage

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31 thoughts on “Presbyterian Church Votes To Allow Gay Marriage

      • Y’haven’t been left posted with a truckload of lemons and are trying to create a market for them, have you lad? 😉

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      • But how long before this incident will repeat itself with respect to churches and denominations who will stand their ground against the LGBT issue because it is unbiblical?

        In our daily interactions with the GLBT community, the bitterest arguments they invoke against us is the one against change of homosexual orientation. Yet the scriptures are clear that this change is possible, otherwise Paul would not have said “and such were some of you” after condemning the issue (See 1 Cor. 6:9-11).

        And what happens to Christians within the Presbyterian community whose objection against the LGBT is that they didn’t sign up for its support, when they joined the Presbyterian Church? What happens to Christians whose condition of joining a given Christian community was based on harmony with the scriptures?

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    • What the Bible actually says on the issue? Don’t you think if God wanted to send us a message, ancient writings would be the only way he could think of doing it?

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      • Actually, the most definitive decree from god himself clearly indicates he doesn’t approve of ANY sort of marriage. (Genesis)
        He decided Adam required a playmate so he created one, GAVE it to Adam and told them to get on with it.

        Marriage is a man-invented (aptly-named!) ‘Institution’, demanded so that it’s be easier to control tribes. (an anti-anarchist measure)

        SO I have no objection to homosexuals getting married.
        Why should only the heterosexuals suffer?

        …and for those who drool at the very thought of surveys, polls, etc.:-
        It might be interesting to compare the divorce and domestic homicide rates of the two groups down the track a bit.

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    • 53% of Australian Christians support same-sex marriage.

      This is the finding of a Galaxy Research poll which asked 1060 Australians whether same-sex couples should be allowed to marry.

      The survey also asked about religious affiliation. It found that support for same-sex marriage is:
      •53% among Christians (with 41% opposed)
      •62% among members of other religions (with 30% opposed), and
      •67% among people with no religion (with 24% opposed).

      The survey found overall support for allowing same-sex marriages remains steady at 60%.

      However, the poll shows a marked shift in how strongly views on the issue are held. Since October last year, 5% of supporters of equality have shifted from agree to strongly agree, with a similar shift among opponents of reform from strongly disagree to disagree.

      A number of Christian leaders have explained why they, as Christians, support marriage equality.

      ““How can I, a heterosexual who’s been very happily married for 50 years, tell anyone else they don’t have the right to form a loving, committed, lifelong union and enjoy the fruits of marriage as I have done? Marriage is not a club to be restricted to some. Like the Gospel, it is a blessing to be shared.”

      Rev Dr Rowland Croucher (John Mark Ministries, Victoria)

      “When a couple want to be part of the institution of marriage, when they fully accept the same rights and responsibilities of marriage and treat marriage with the respect it deserves, why should they NOT get married? As a Christian minister, I believe that marriage is under threat from many angles, but also believe that recognizing same-sex unions will help return marriage to its rightful place in society.”

      Rev Matt Glover (Baptist Minister, Melbourne)

      “From a Christian point of view, marriage is an institution designed to serve two social needs:

      1. contribute broadly to social stability

      2. provide a stable environment for the nurturing of children.

      If this is the case then the only questions Christians need to concern themselves with when it comes to the issue of gay marriage are these two:

      1. Would gay marriage lead to greater social stability?

      2. Would a married gay partnership be likely to provide a more secure environment for the nurturing of the children of a gay couple than an unmarried one?

      I think the answer to both these questions has to be ‘yes’”

      Fr Dave Smith, (Anglican parish priest, Sydney)

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      • . There is a misapprehension that “biblical marriage” is an unambiguous construct. But a read of the Bible as a whole shows that there has been a fundamental evolution in what marriage is. From David and Solomon with many (many) wives, to the New Testament period when monogamy became common (but where the matchmaking was largely the purview of the parents) the understanding of marriage has changed. This is particularly true for women. The idea of a woman having a romantic choice in her marriage was unthinkable until centuries after the Bible was compiled.

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      • Carmel
        – You haven’t told us how much of the actual population sample was Christian; how much of the sample was atheistic; how much of the population was other religions;
        – Of the Christian population you haven’t told us how much of it was conservative Christian; how much of it was liberal Christian.

        I have a suspicion that the sample was skewed towards one result. Can you provide the link? The mathematics involved do not add up.

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  1. Oh what a tangled web we weaved
    When gods of man we first conceived 😉

    ….there’s more, but since today’s the sabbath………

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      • About ‘Hollis Caravetta-Coleman’, Bible Teacher

        Hollis is the daughter of a Russian Jew who fought in WWII with the American army. He kept the fact that he was Jewish a secret from her for many years. He even changed his last name to hide the fact that he was Jewish. As a youngster Hollis was raised in the cult of Christian Science. Her Christian mother was dying of breast cancer at the time and she had no interest in “her god”, being a self-righteous hippy, flower-child artist of the 60’s. Hollis was sure that her Charismatic tongue-talking mother had lost her mind, but God chose Hollis and spoke audibly to her in the form of questions directed at her, while traveling on a private plane. Questions like “Why don’t you as an artist believe in Me when you see my artistry all over My creation?” One day shortly thereafter, a friend of her mother’s read Hollis one of the poems she had written and to her total shock and amazement it contained the same question that she had received from the voice on the plane!

        Hollis went to bed that night and prayed for the first time in almost twenty years, “God if you are real, am I a Jew or a Gentile?” At about 2:00 AM Hollis’ stepfather knocked on the bedroom door and said that God had told him to tell her, “You are a daughter of Abraham!” The next morning Hollis accepted Jesus as her Savior and her life has never been the same!

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      • OH NO!!! —> “The Bible hints that at the end of the age”
        Not AGAIN!? 🙂

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    • We know today that those strongly attracted to the same sex can’t be changed. The multiple failures and atrocious psychological damage afflicted by “ministries” which tried to “pray the gay away” is well-known and admitted by many of those who ran the organizations. To demand that LGBT people live a celibate life does not pass the golden rule test. And it seems obvious that an institution which has nourished countless lives of people through human history should be open to all.

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  2. We are on a downward spiral. Aren’t nothing going to stop it. I feel sorry for the kids because it will be their generation that cops the consequences of messing with the family unit.

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    • “Downward spiral”?

      Yes, I too fear for the world we are entrusting to the generations to come, but then, if our tolerance and acceptance paves the way to a world of equality, where all prejudice against gays is finally eliminated, then I think it is a good thing. Human dignity is what is important, and no-one has the right to deny that from anyone or to take it away from them.

      We live in a world of double-standards Dom. Where a state of being is considered normal in some ideologies, it isn’t in others. Take for instance polygamy. Wikipedia states:

      “Polygyny, the practice of one husband taking multiple wives, has been condemned as a form of human rights abuse. Many international human rights organisations, as well as women’s rights groups in many countries, have called for its abolition. In 2000, the United Nations Human Rights Committee considered polygamy (probably limited to polygyny) a violation of the internationally binding International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) on the grounds that it violates the dignity of women, and recommended it be made illegal in all states.”

      And what about Puerto Rico. I read recently that most Puerto Ricans are born to single parents—SIXTY-EIGHT per cent of births in Puerto Rico are to couples who are neither married nor live together. That shocked me.

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      • BS, there are only a handful of species in all of creation that are meant by nature to be monogamous. Forcing monogamy on other species is a perversion and source of endless, human-destroying, strife.

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    • Too late Dom.
      The culturally-evolved ‘family unit’ finally disappeared into extinction with the advent of the ‘nuclear family’: Mother & Farther and 2.3 kids.
      Another legacy of WWII, and one which your was embraced by all and sundry for the (inarguable) benefits it provided.

      I’m as much ‘Back-to’ and DIY Luddite as anyone you’d know, but I certainly wouldn’t go back to ‘The Sullivans’.

      Tribalism wasn’t what it was cracked up to be, and I’d bet even the jews of the exodus would’ve voted for supermarkets on every corner and air-conditioned Corollas over wandering around in the wilderness.
      ….even if the manna WAS free. (Didn’t offer and Easy-Flyer points or weekly specials let alone a range of flavours!)

      Not Moses nor Jesus nor Muhammed (etal) would’ve been able to get a quorum together on Grand Final Day. 😉

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      • Yes it may be too late. A major factor in the riots in London was children growing up without a father figure. Now we are messing with the family unit even more and having a non conventional father or mother influence.

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      • Actually, it’s much more likely that (ANY) riots anywhere are a protest against an oppressive status quo ~ aka ‘convention’.

        The contemporary convention ~ as regards fatherless kids ~ is the very agency by which paternal influence (which NEEDN’T be on a 24/7 basis) has been removed.

        The natural input from one’s father has been abrogated and replaced by ersatz fathers, which present in all sorts of ways: from the State to the gods.

        The most determined wanna-be father in the world has had his authority abrogated by government departments established by The (absurd!) New Age philosophies, feminist axe-grinders, PC and assorted brands of ‘Social Workers’.
        ……along with the industry-building religious would-be ‘authorities’. (eg ‘Access Ministries’, which are hopefully about to be terminated.)

        And there’s nothing secret about it; the destruction of the natural world and the nature of all thing (including the child-parent ~ and also the parent-parent ~ relationships is a battle-cry of the perverts who make poofs look strait-laced.

        Young animals ~ including human ones ~ don’t NEED to be molly-coddled; they need to be given the tools ~ even the sometimes-painful ones ~ to grow into the best individual they can be.
        …….wherever that might take them.

        I knew one five-year-old boy who was already phobic about getting some dirt on his hands.

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    • Oh come on Mon! —> “Human dignity is what is important,”
      There’s nothing ‘dignified’ about how we get here nor how (and after) we leave here, nor anything much in between.

      ‘Dignity’ is merely another of those words we invent so that we can measure our (allegedly) greater value against somebody else’s. (Sort of like referring to a politician as ‘The Honourable Arsehole From Whoop-Whoop’. NOBODY other than another Wanna-Be would ever call a politician ‘honourable’)
      (Particularly since they let period-prone, hormone-driven, inferior females into the game!)

      To claim ‘dignity’ on the basis of being ‘human’ is nothing other than ‘species-ist’ discrimination with absolutely no foundation in reality.
      Like every other living thing our primary purpose appears to be to produce poop (and skid-marks as a by-product, and we don’t even do that as competently or efficiently as cockroaches. 😉

      For one thing they don’t destroy forests in order to produce dunny paper; for another they they don’t wear detrimental-to-health underpants. (nor write posts like this!)
      In fact, no other known species is as obsessed about what goes on, one way and another, in their underpants as is ours

      Dignity indeed! 😆

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      • Archbishop Desmond Tutu reflects on the human dignity of each person as reflected in the other

        “As a created and precious child of God I have been blessed with a great sense of dignity. Recognising that we are all created as sisters and brothers belong to a common humanity, leads us to treat one another with respect. Our sense of dignity is affirmed when our uniqueness is recognised and valued by those around us, as we all become global citizens.

        Africans have something called Ubuntu. It captures the essence of being human. It embraces hospitality, caring about others, being able to go the extra mile for the sake of others. We believe that a person is a person through another person; that my humanity is caught up, bound up, inextricably, with yours.

        Respecting a person takes account of their feelings and experiences; their social situation; their ethnic, religious, and sexual identity, though they may be very different from my own.

        The practice of Ubuntu demands an openmindedness that celebrates difference, recognising the validity of others’ circumstances and experiences. It recognises the uniqueness of each person and looks for the image of God in the other.”

        Dignity: The quality of being worthy of honor or respect.

        I think it’s my favourite word Dabs.

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      • Is this:- ” Recognising that we are all created as sisters and brothers belong to a common humanity, leads us to treat one another with respect.”…

        ….before or after we finish eating our “sisters and brothers”?
        (preferebly alive)

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  3. There’s this great line in the movie “Man Friday” with Peter O’Toole. Robison Crusoe becomes lonely and Friday offers him sex. “You disgusting creature … that’s the difference between savages like yourself and civilized nations such as England… when you’re civilized Friday… you learn that man cannot love man. It’s against God, and everything natural … understand? MAN CANNOT LOVE MAN ! And … that’s the reason I’m flogging myself…. to purge the wicked thoughts from my body…”

    The good old days ….

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  4. Truth is the only thing that separates the “Saved” from the “Damned”. Psalms 119:11 says, “I have hid the word in my heart that I might not sin against thee”. Those who are deceived will cross any line. Those who know truth must hold onto it with all diligence. Study the word to show thyself approved.

    Like

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