Drag queen Eurovision winner condemned by Russian Orthodox Church

A SPOKESMAN for the Russian Orthodox Church strongly denounced the Eurovision Song Contest’s selection of a drag queen as its winner, saying it was a sign of the world’s moral decline and part of an effort to “reinforce new cultural norms.”

Conchita Wurst, the stage name of a former band singer from Austria named Tom Neuwirth, won the 59th installment of the competition, held this year in Copenhagen, with a song titled “Rise Like a Phoenix,” which he performed as a bearded woman in a form-fitting gold dress.

“The process of the legalization of that to which the Bible refers to as nothing less than an abomination is already long not news in the contemporary world,” Vladimir Legoyda, chairman of the church’s information department, told the Interfax news agency. “Unfortunately, the legal and cultural spheres are moving in a parallel direction, to which the results of this competition bear witness.”

Legoyda said the result of the competition was “yet one more step in the rejection of the Christian identity of European culture.”

Other Russian commentators pointed out that Russia’s pop-music scene is known for flamboyant performers who bend gender lines.

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51 thoughts on “Drag queen Eurovision winner condemned by Russian Orthodox Church

  1. I know some homosexuals, male and female. They didn’t just sit down and decide ” Hey, I think I would like to have a same sex relationship – just to be different!” They simply followed their natural feelings and desires, as we all do, as we are ALL entitled to do and discovered that this is what felt normal for them. Some of them live in loving committed relationships with the same ups and downs of any heterosexual relationships. So enlighten me, why is this wrong? Whose business is it anyway? I can’t for the life of me see what harm this is doing to the world.
    Homosexuality has been a fact of life for thousands of years, forced behind closed doors and secrecy through nothing more than small mindedness and intolerance – I don’t see Gods work in that.
    Perhaps Vladimir Legoyda should take a leaf out of Pope Francis’ book “If someone is gay and seeks the Lord with good will, who am I to judge?” It’s nature. Who gets to reject it, call it an abomination and claim that they are speaking for God.

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    • Yes! It may be “nature” but is it the sinful-rebellious-against-God type of nature, that Paul calls “the flesh” or is it the type of nature that humankind had, before sin entered the world?
      What does the word of God say about this matter? At the end of the day it is the word of God not what man has to say on the subject that matters.

      And yes, we are not to judge when people seek the Lord; but the problem here is three fold:
      – Vladimir Legoyda spoke against something done by non Christians at a non Christian event. Thus he contravened 1 Cor. 5:12. Had the she-he carried out what it did at a Christian function, the matter would have been different. But no! He spoke about an action that had nothing to do with Christianity.
      – Whilst 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 condemns effeminates, it also emphasises that the ones who became saved and washed in the blood of Jesus, WERE in this class of sinners, but had repented of their sins. So salvation is conditional on repentance from this sort of sin. There is no Biblical support for continuing in the GLBT lifestyle.
      – When Jesus said not to judge, He was speaking about the hidden motives of the heart which are not obvious to the observer. He was not talking about the open sin where it is blatantly obvious that the person is refusing to do what God tells him/her to do. In fact if you look at the whole issue of when to judge (which is the process by which excommunication occurs), you will see that the New Testament only allows it in the case of open, blatant sin, and only in regards to church members, not outsiders who have not accepted Christianity.

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      • Here is the closest thing that I can find that says anything close to the rating of sins.

        James 2:10-11 (NIV)
        For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

        Now I understand this as saying if you do commit a sin, you are just as guilty as breaking them all. Does say in the Bible that all you need to do is repent and ask for forgiveness and you will receive it! Hope this helps, Best of luck and God bless.

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      • If you take Paul “literally” on homosexuality take Jesus literally on money.

        The reason anti-gay Christians invariably give for their conviction that homosexuality is an egregious sin against God is, “That’s what the Bible says.”*

        “God said it, I believe it!” is their credo.

        The question that raises is this: if you’re going to look to the Bible generally, and to the words of Jesus Christ specifically, for guidance and direction on how to live your life, then don’t you need to very assiduously attend to the actual words of Jesus?

        Christ said it; you believe it. If you’re a Christian, that’s your deal. And if you’re a conservative Christian, you most certainly look to Jesus for critical input about anything and everything in your life that is of particular importance to you.

        Like money, for instance.

        Here is what Jesus Christ said about money:

        “Sell your possessions and give to the poor.” (Luke 12:33)

        “You cannot serve God and Money.” (Matthew 6:24)

        “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.” (Matthew 6:19)

        “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Luke 18:25)

        Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus more explicitly clear about anything than he is about money. He cuts off any and all wiggle room on the matter.

        Because he does, I do not see how it is possible to avoid the conclusion that there is something profoundly wrong with any Christian who is not voluntarily as poor as the proverbial church mouse pointing to the Bible as justification for the condemnation of gay people.

        How can any Christian insist on taking literally what Paul said about homosexuality*, but at the same time refuse to take literally what Jesus Christ himself—who never said a single word about homosexuality—said about money?

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      • Totally agree with you Karen, this is my problem with some individuals that profess to adhere to their religious texts, in this case Christians, though this topic presents a problem with most religions. It is so easy to ‘Cherry Pick’ passages that suit a particular point of view held by an individual. How many times have we heard some say in vengeful anger: ” An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, that’s what the Bible says!!” Yet in calmer waters they will likely say: “Turn the other cheek, that’s what Jesus said”. To my knowledge the teachings of Jesus was set to challenge the thinking and personal beliefs of the time. These people don’t wish to be challenged they want affirmation.

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      • Sorry Karen,

        Bible Commentary does not agree with you:

        “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

        This is the crux of the matter, that it is utterly impossible for a man that sets his heart upon his riches, to get to heaven. Having riches is not the problem, it’s the heart attitude towards the riches that’s the problem.

        And this is interesting, one commentary says of “Sell your possessions and give to the poor.” (Luke 12:33), “That the only community which attempted, as a community, to obey this charge literally was the Church of Jerusalem, and the result was that for long years this Church was plunged into the deepest poverty, so that assistance had to be sent even from far-distant Churches to this deeply impoverished Jerusalem community. [This we learn from Paul, the real compiler of this very Gospel, where the charge is reported. See many passages in his letters, notably the Second Epistle to the Corinthians.”

        In no way does Jesus expect us to be poor and destitute, but He does expect us to put Him first in our lives above all else.

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      • Thank you Monica

        John 5:39-40
        For me, this scripture sums up the way many modern Christians view things.

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    • “It’s nature. Who gets to reject it, call it an abomination and claim that they are speaking for God.”

      I would think those who are appointed spokespersons for Orthodox Christianity or appointed by God to speak on His behalf as in the Office of ‘Prophet’.

      Question—What is ‘nature’/natural about being a Drag Queen?

      If my grand-babies were ever to ask me one day about such a person, I would reply that God does not make mistakes (He made us one or the other; male and female), and that these folk are very confused individuals.

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      • The extract below was a response to the part of the LGBT community which tries to integrate the LGBT lifestyle within Christianity. Although written in the context of homosexuals being integrated within Christianity, the same arguments are used by other groups within the LGBT umbrella.

        “The Ethic of Love – All love ain’t Equal

        Q. In the New Testament Era, should not the ethic of love prevail, allowing for homosexual or gay living?

        The GLBT Lobby Answer
        The Bible sets forth the liberating ethic of love as the chief principle of the Christian. Establishing such rules as forbidding homosexual relationships brings Christians under bondage and violates the ethic of love. If our ethic is love, should not freedom prevail in such questions? Isn’t it a question of respect for the stronger (homosexual) brother (Rom. 14-15)? The church should accept into its membership and among its clergy, those who live in committed, homosexual arrangements (marriages).

        The Biblical Answer
        Our attempt to obey the second greatest commandment, to love our neighbour as ourselves (Lev. 19:8), cannot violate the first commandment, to love God with our total being (Deut. 6:5-9). A significant way to love God is to be “holy” (Lev. 19:2). Love motivates obedience to God’s commands (John 13:34,35; 1 John 3:23; 2 John 6). Homosexuality violates any honest definition of purity and holiness. As with other sexual sins, it is not morally neutral, so it does not fall in the category of the “stronger” and “weaker brothers”.

        The GLBT Counter-Argument

        The voice of the community fashions our morality. Although the Bible can give us our theology, only the whole community acting together can decide which ethical standards should currently prevail.

        The Biblical Answer

        As much as we might like to customise our morality around current fashion, ethical principles are based in the character of the unchanging God. Neither does God shape morality around majority vote. Would the Israelites have voted for the 10 Commandments? Many of them were violating the laws even as Moses received them on Mount Sinai. God made His will clear, though not many agreed with it.”

        One can readily see that in order to integrate the LGBT in the church, one has to compromise, nay, even betray sacred trusts.

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      • You seem to think homosexuality is a choice. I don’t think it is. But love is surely a choice.

        Phillippians 2:3-5
        Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus

        Paul spent much of the second chapter of Philippians explaining the importance of treating everyone with respect and dignity; even to the point of considering them more important than yourself. Is carrying a sign which says “God hates fags” in line with this passage?

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      • I joined a Pentecostal Christian group many many years ago. One of their ‘elected representatives to speak for God’ approached me one day and said “I was speaking to Jesus last night and he told me that he didn’t really like you listening to that Led Zeppelin Music all of the time, but the occasional Dire Straits is ok.” Now I’m quite sure that you would figure them to be an inferior brand of Christianity along with the thousands of other DIFFERENT versions of Christianity and we won’t even start on the Judaists, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindis, Hindus or any other organisation that will claim divine right to tell us how to live in the name of God. I really struggle to take organised religion seriously.

        Question—What is ‘nature’/natural about being a Drag Queen?

        There are medical cases of True hermaphroditism in humans – both male and female organs. Sometimes there is just a confusion of hormones in the womb that also influences sexuality and sexual behaviour. Sounds like a fact of nature to me. Your small minded religion would seem to want to reject them for being born differently – your loss.
        I was speaking with someone(also Christian) about homosexuality and he turned to me in all earnestness and said “It’s not their fault, they were born with a sickness.” Right, so if your born different to me it’s a sickness.

        No God doesn’t make mistakes humans do, it’s called small minded intolerance.
        I hope your Grand babies are born in a way that are acceptable to you and your Christian values or your going to have to actually think for yourself and do some deep soul searching – the Bhuddhists say the soul has no gender by the way, wonder that that means?. My nephew is Gay and think think he and his boyfriend make a wonderful couple!

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      • Monica,
        Welcome home! (you really are back with us, I take it?) Was only talking of your eagerly anticipated return, to Strewth today. We wait with excitement for all that you have to report.

        Now, in regard to today’s discussion, I have to say that however much I might ‘believe in’ or ‘have faith’ in my God, I do not for a moment accept that God ‘makes’ the individual people in any way. At the most, surely, we may only acknowledge God as making or providing the ‘Soul’, whatever that really is. And then, it is surely the combining of human and completely ‘natural’ forces that the human person turns out to be whatever they are. And in any case, as is pointed out by Michael —.
        .. <<>> Sounds like a fact or curiosity of nature to me, rather than any sort of decision made by the/a Deity.

        Wonder what good old St Paul would have said about those cases? I only hope and trust he wouldnt have tried to blame it on some sin of the parents involved.

        Love, Rian.

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      • Here is the closest thing that I can find that says anything close to the rating of sins.

        James 2:10-11 (NIV)
        For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

        Now I understand this as saying if you do commit a sin, you are just as guilty as breaking them all. Does say in the Bible that all you need to do is repent and ask for forgiveness and you will receive it! Hope this helps, Best of luck and God bless.

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      • One point to make is that many homosexuals have some serious hurts based on events in their past. When I say “many,” I mean a much higher percentage than in the general population. These hurts have come as a result of events that happened to them, that they did not bring upon themselves. They need healing as much as any cancer patient, as much as any of the lame or blind people that Jesus took the time to heal. These are people who were created by God, in His image. How can we have any attitude toward them but compassion?

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      • Hi Rian,

        Yes, just arrived back and holiday over. Glad to be back though and am just recovering from jet lag and a nasty cold. How are you? In fact, how are you all? Trusting that you, Strewth, Bryan, Kathleen, Dabbles, Davinci, and the gang are all well, I hope.

        How can you say that a Drag Queen is born a Drag Queen? I thought that Drag Queens come from the homosexual subculture who are doing a parody of a female and quite often do it badly, I feel, making us out to be made up tarts. God help us (women) if that’s the image of a woman that men fantasize about because it is a grossly distorted image of true womanhood. Genetics does not produce that—perversion does!

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      • Now Monica (and sundry),
        That same statement that ‘God does not make mistakes’. Just what do you mean exactly by those few words?

        The problem with it is that it represents a statement of faith (only) that can in no way be disproven. It is an example of the third and final clause in a logical syllogism. Problem is that everything depends on the validity of the other two clauses. Get either of those other premises wrong or doubtful, and it all falls to pieces.

        And I still want to know how this claim is dealt with, when one is dealing with an individual who is born equipped with the sexual apparatus of both sexes. Do we blame it onto God or what?

        Love, Rian.

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      • Why look for blame, it’s easier just to accept it and learn how to live with it. I remember at a place where I once worked when something went wrong, or not according to plan, the hunt to blame someone or something would be on. Seems the problem at hand would then be shifted down in priority in search for something to condemn.

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      • Yes Rian,

        I agree that my comment that “God does not make mistakes” IS a statement of faith and in no way can be proven. Likewise, my belief (based on faith in God’s Word) is in line with what Sy Rogers has to say in this video, which no doubt will offend some. And I also know (as experiential fact) the devastating negative influence of the demonic on our fallen nature. There is more than nature working in our lives and when it comes to the Healing Ministry, one must pursue every avenue to get to the root cause of whatever one is asking God to be healed of.

        Remember though that just because we people of the Book may hold differing views to the majority, it does not necessarily mean that we are homophobic. God commands us to love, and to seek after truth. His Word is my truth, which means that I see things differently. I love, but I also grieve for lost possibilities and opportunities to be all that God would have me/us to be.

        With love….and it’s good to be back on the blog.

        BTW, I love Sy Rogers. He underwent a life transformation when he found God. He was living the life of a homosexual and was about to have a sex change operation when he met God, and as a result God changed his sexual orientation and in Sy’s words, made him whole.

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      • Hey Monica! So good to see you back. Looking foward to hearing your stories. xo

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      • Thanks Kathleen,

        I’m home! (the blog)

        Here’s a funny story. I spent half my life trying to deny my Maltese heritage because of the racist bullying I (and many others) in my childhood years especially, went through. And so I go to Malta and the locals know from my accent that I do not live there, but when asked where I come from, and I tell them, without expection they reply, “But you are Maltese!!!” Lol! To no avail did I pretend I wasn’t Maltese for all those years. But honestly, their replies made me feel very happy and proud (for the first time in my life) to be of Maltese stock…..praise God! That was a big healing in my life.

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      • you beaut, Mon,

        We had our first get together a couple of weeks back, Dabbles, Strewth and Me.
        Will tell you about it in private email It was a great session.

        Now, back to ‘God doesnt make mistakes’. — It still sounds fishy to me. Are we really supposed to think that The God is behind every one of the genetic and bodily problems that bedevil virtually every human who comes into being? I still want to understand exactly what you mean when you say that. I still want to know just how you deal with those folks who are born with the equipment of both sexes. I honestly cant imagine a deity like the Christian God deliberately ‘making’ an individual like that.

        Oh, and as for that bearded performer who sets himself up in Drag on Eurovision . Usually, I dont very much care for that sort of outfit but I have always admired a truly clever female impersonator. British comedians like Ronny Barker, Benny Hill and Peter Cook could do it very successfully. I recall some years back, I forced myself to watch (on TV) the first 15 minutes only of Rocky Horror show. Just hated it, and never saw any more of it.

        Hard to imagine but that fine actor Craig Mclachlan who is great and serious in the series of Doctor Blake Mysteries, is playing the main character on stage in Melbourne, of Rocky Horror. And I must confess however that once or twice on stage in farces, I had to appear in a dress, usually as a disguise, tho you take that on as part of the landscape in mad comedies. And it really is fun to do on stage. Just as I dont go round losing my trousers in public, in the same way I’ve had happen to me in plays.

        I guess our bearded Eurovision performer was born with certain body and brain characteristics, that offered him all sorts of possibilities. The alter Ego he has chosen is actually very well performed, and I see it as harmless. Am glad as well, that his face is not made up in an exaggerated style.

        Love Rian.

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      • Hey Rian,

        “Now, back to ‘God doesnt make mistakes’. — It still sounds fishy to me. Are we really supposed to think that The God is behind every one of the genetic and bodily problems that bedevil virtually every human who comes into being? I still want to understand exactly what you mean when you say that. I still want to know just how you deal with those folks who are born with the equipment of both sexes. I honestly cant imagine a deity like the Christian God deliberately ‘making’ an individual like that.”

        No, I am not saying that at all!

        Did you have a listen to Sy Rogers (only 11 minutes of your time)? I thought he explained it perfectly, but then who knows, maybe it makes sense to Christians only.

        What I am implying is that if God says He made man in His image, both male and female, and He calls men having sex with men, and women having sex with women sin, then surely He does not deliberately create gay people; that it is outside of His original intent and subject to other influences; it just happens in other words.

        Cheers

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      • This all sounds too much like the convenient Christianity that I turned away from so many years ago. He doesn’t Make mistakes but…………

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      • Yes, I get it Michael,

        Religion sucks, and in particular the Christian religious; those gullible, dull-witted, bigoted, unable to think for themselves sheepies. You’ve made your position perfectly clear.

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      • No Monica, I’m no “Christian Basher”. Christianity served my mother well – or should I say she served it well. I just question the fairness of the views for some religious beliefs. Most religions don’t deal with Homosexuality very well and some lands still jail people for homosexuality. You argued a Christian point of view, I would have argued just the same had it been Islamic, Bhudhist, Hindu or any other religion, my issue is fairness and the lack of tolerance that can be displayed in the name of religion.

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  2. I have known quie a few same-sex couples, and have been very impressed with their quiet caring life style. They seem on the whole to cope better than many heterosexual couples do.

    Conversely I have found a few, very few, who seem to use ‘gay pride’ to compensate for psychological problems. If you know some like this, please don’t class them as the norm.

    Consider that this may be God’s way of limiting the population explosion, too.

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    • Plato’s “Symposium” makes it clear that homosexual love was stronger than heterosexual love in ancient Greece. He also made it clear that the problem with this type of love was that a homosexual would become so blind to his/her lover that he would steal, murder and deceive on his lover’s behalf. In other words, a huge relaxation of morals.

      In fact the ancient Greeks prohibited known homosexuals from holding public office, as being unfit for public trusts, precisely because of their propensity to lie, murder and steal on their lover’s behalf. This is explained more fully in “Plato’s Republic”.

      In the ancient court case of “Aeschines against Timarchus”, Timarchus’ sexual orientation is used to impeach him, not because he was homosexual (which was legal), but because his homosexuality led him to cheat his way into public office (which was illegal).

      One has to ask why the ancient Greeks (where homosexuality was ubiquous) would make such laws discriminating against homosexuals!

      By the time Josephus Flavius comes along, we are told that the ancient Greeks were now in the process of changing their attitudes towards the whole homosexual orientation, although they had previously tolerated it. And this was before Christianity came on the scene.

      The point I am making is that if one looks at all cultures around the world where effeminacy and homosexuality were tolerated, they eventually restricted it and then rejected it, without reference to Judaeo-Christian morality. Maybe there is something wrong with such practices. We just haven’t experienced the full unrestrained manifestation of the consequences of tolerating the LGBT lifestyle.

      “Those who refuse to read God’s warnings in Scripture, will read them in the bloody history of earth’s nations.” (Author Unknown)

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      • Wow! Well researched and thought out! Love it. Add this one to the “Ten things I learnt about gay people” and we can see how it’s PEOPLE that reject Homosexuality.

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  3. I’ve known some like this too, they come in all walks of life. Some of the Gay Pride people are ones that have moved from the desire for acceptance to the fight for acceptance and some do have psychological issues.

    “Consider that this may be God’s way of limiting the population explosion, too.”

    It may also be Gods way of seeing orphaned children adopted as progressive acceptance wins over. But really, who knows, if we thought about it for long enough we could come up with plenty reasons as to why things are so in relation to Gods intent. I try(emphasis on try) not to interpret Gods intent in a lot of matters in fear that I might end up being like one of those that believe they hold some kind of divine authority here on Earth. What I do know is that life presents challenges and all I can do is learn to accept and live with them as best I can.

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      • Sorry Kathleen to hear of your experience, but glad the understand your relationship with your birth parents was good. One thing my children in middle age still held against me was that I didn’t leave their father, even early in the marriage. I was too scared of repercussions for them as well as myself – it was fear not duty that kept me there.

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    • You know, I hear this quite a bit, that children who need to be adopted will be happy to just be loved and it won’t matter if mother/father, two mothers etc or even multiple people.

      I have to disagree. It mattered to me.

      People also often say that children will cope with the divorce of their parents, it will ultimately be better for them, but more and more I am hearing children saying how hard it was and they actually would have preferred if their parents had tried harder to stay together (fighting and all).

      They used to also say that children that are born of IVF will not really worry too much about their origins, just as long as they have loving parents. That’s proving not to be true http://www.anonymousfathersday.com/ We are born with a need to connect to our blood.

      It’s not about love. I love all my parents but what I needed was one set of parents, one of each (for me personally, I needed my father more, probably because I have two mothers).

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      • I’m sorry Kathleen. My comment was intended only as example of how we may interpret ‘Gods Will for us’, personally I Endeavour not to interpret. In life we are presented with challenges and we really have no choice but to muddle our way through them as best we can. i.e. A little while ago my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease and I have had no choice but to put her into residential care. She has always been a charitable Christian woman that would help anyone that needed it and yet she has ended up like this. She can’t even remember the prayers that use to comfort her. My part in this has been to ensure that she is safe, comfortable and that I am there for her, though she doesn’t really remember when I have been there, it’s all I can do. How can I put an interpretation of God’s will for her, it feels so unfair to see such a good person end up this way. So I say it is what it is, I just have to do the best I can with this particular challenge – no interpretations just Faith.
        As for adoption, I would never profess to personally know how it feels to not know ones Birth parents. As it happens my wife was brought up in an orphanage. It was an exceptionally good foundation in Scotland that was set up to provide for orphaned and abandoned children, in fact materially they were probably provided for better than most children in that depressed area of the country. However, it couldn’t provide her with the love only parents can provide and I know that this is an emptiness that she has always carried with her. Even though my wife can speak of some of the happy times she had growing up, she can equally speak with bitter sadness in wondering why her parents gave her up.

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      • “she can equally speak with bitter sadness in wondering why her parents gave her up.” That just made me terribly sad lol

        No worries Michael. Your mother has a good son and your wife a good husband.

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      • Hi Mon,
        Thanks for your explanations, and also for the intriguing story of this guy Si. His account is certainly impressive.

        Over the last 24 hours, I’ve been looking for the definitive question I need to put to you on the sentence about ‘God not making mistakes’. Each attempt as I designed it, turned out to be inadequate. And this evening, I just thought of the query that hopefully may cover my problem on the matter.

        Now, I’m mentally envisaging your own self as the human being that you are. You are standing there in front of me with all of your appearance, – skin type, hair and eye colour, height, internal organs, brain capacity, and any structural weaknesses or problems that you have perhaps inherited. Now my essential question is this: –

        Is it your view that the God you personally worship, selected and decided on each of those same characteristics, (and more) and on that basis ‘made’ you?

        Or does this God leave all those things to nature or natural law, having long since completed all of His part of the deal, when He designed and created humankind in the first place (presumably with no mistakes), and left that blueprint for all time, in order that nature would do the rest; – and thus any mistakes that show up (as we’ve discussed in the case of Monica’s creation), were not done by God?

        Love as ever, Rian.

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      • It’s me again Rian.

        “Is it your view that the God you personally worship, selected and decided on each of those same characteristics, (and more) and on that basis ‘made’ you?”

        No.

        “Or does this God leave all those things to nature or natural law, having long since completed all of His part of the deal, when He designed and created humankind in the first place (presumably with no mistakes), and left that blueprint for all time, in order that nature would do the rest; – and thus any mistakes that show up (as we’ve discussed in the case of Monica’s creation), were not done by God?”

        Bingo! (to borrow Kathleen’s expression)

        Sorry Rian. I know I have trouble finding the right words at times. In hindsight perhaps I shouldn’t have said God does not make mistakes. Perhaps I should have said God does not change His mind or the rules; that nowhere in Scripture does He endorse homosexuality. In any case, the thoughts expressed in your second paragraph is how I think.

        Love to you too, Mon

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      • Monica my love,
        Thanks for your clarification. As you will have realized, I just needed some clarification to be sure of what you were saying there.

        (big sigh), I only wish that good old davinci could similarly answer simple questions without fudging.

        cheers, Rian and Pusses. (I’ll bet your animal(s) only too happy to see you back home!)

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  4. I was wondering recently. If everyone relationship is to be considered blessed by God i.e. a heterosexual married couple, homosexual married couple, defacto relationship and boyfriend/girlfriend.

    Does that mean that the commandment Thou Shalt not commit Adultery should apply to all of the above?

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    • Like much of Mosaic law it was meant to make society function well. Today I think adultery should be steered well clear of – I feel it would hurt someone, and that is against the Golden Rule of Jesus.

      I can understand a adulterous relationship where the couple believes no further hurt can happen than already has.

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      • Hi Kathleen,

        Kif int?

        That’s the trouble, many do not believe the Bible is God’s Word.

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      • I’ve come to learn that Monica. I feel like it’s just you and I.

        Taiba grazi

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      • ‘Many don’t believe the Bible is God’s word.’
        I believe Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible certainly wasn’t there from the Beginning – thinking of letters written by Paul to the new churches makes that even more ludicrous.

        But I do believe the Bible was inspired by God, each book an inspiration for the individual writer rather than for others. We can all benefit as we find passages that speak to us too, and we can be led to those as God speaks to us.

        I just think it’s sad that the Logos is seen as the Bible rather than as Jesus, and DO fall into Bible worship.

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      • I believe ALL religious texts need to be read to inspire rather than command and not to be seen as the final word. I believe they were inspired by individual quests for a better understanding of God. Listening to the music of Cat Stevens, he was very much a man that yearned for peace and harmony. He found Islam offered an understanding that worked for him. I use Cat Stevens(Yusuf Islam) as an example because his music makes his quest obvious, there are many people that have converted to one of the many religions in this world. I believe the journey for a connection with God or a better understanding of God is a personal one, we can choose to share our thoughts and inspiration but we have no right to force them upon anyone. It seems that most of the conflicts of the world come from the narrow minded thinking that there has to be a right and wrong “this is the only true word of God”, “you must see God this way”, “God commands you to do this”. I have heard NO inspiration of God that demands that people should go out and kill in His name. Unconditional Love and TOLERANCE seem be the key to any chance of peace, regardless of what religious path one may choose.

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