MORE than 100 years ago a philanthropist and chocolate baron set out to cure ‘great scourges of humanity’, including war, slavery and gambling. Now the charity bearing Joseph Rowntree’s name has identified the 10 ‘social evils’ of the 21st century, among them selfishness, greed and family breakdown.
After polling more than 3,500 people, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation concluded that the contemporary 10 evils were the decline of community, individualism, consumerism and greed, a decline of values, the decline of the family, young people as both victims and perpetrators, drugs and alcohol, poverty and inequality, immigration and responses to it, and crime and violence.
Among those to blame were big business, religion and the media. ‘People are concerned about the way our society has become more individualistic, greedy and selfish, seemingly at a cost to our sense of community,’ said the report. ‘The focus on greed as an issue reflects concern about the growing gulf between the rich and poor. Connected to all of these issues was the perception that we no longer share a set of common values and that we have lost our “moral compass”.’
Bryan Patterson's Faithworks 
Yes infact, this life has turned very very bad in a very short time, a mere 20-30 yrs. One of the most prolific of influences has been the americans and their movie and TV and music medias, now globally spread from virtually all available technologies ; broadcasts, social networks, CD and DVD and Blu-ray, smartphones, etc
The begging questions are what can we do about these ‘ ills ‘ , do most people even care, and isn’t it all too late.
It seems clear the hardcore conservatives global campaign to install their ‘ everyone for themself and all must stand on their on two feet ‘, attacking virtually all social support programs, all taxations which benefit anyone other than oneself, etc, etc has succeeded.
The worlds democratic political establishement have gone ‘ underground ‘, hiding what they’re really doing from our families, and they lie and lie and lie about those issues everytime they open their mouths.
The world’s political establishments now place most nearly all of their concerns on corporate profits, facilitating and serving virtually all the greed, lying, cheating, stealing, crookery, slavery, cold employee treatment, the devastation of the living planets resources, the dead-Hearted assaults on the living planets animal and plant families, etc.
The worlds political establishments have licensed police to an unprecented degree of terribly viscious violent assaults, tazer-use, and murders etc with ABSOLUTE IMPUNITY !
The profit-press reporters and journalists daily serve the agendas of their economy’s masters, medical doctors grow richer and richer, spending substantial time each week on their stock portfolios, and high-yield investments like chinas slave-labour economy. Science sell their voice and PhD’s of opinions to anyone willing to pay, no matter how harmful and destructive those purposes are.
The churchs priests rape our children and women… they hold such enormous wealth, they lie and like and lie…
The hetero-male increasing employs alcohol and drugs, even violent force, for those transient feelings sex is, university campuses are full of binge-drunkers, fight-clubs, porn-users, social media misogyny tweeters, and on and on.
So… we get the ‘ picture ‘ , so you do, ay ? … why not trust in Jesus for REAL this time, and fight the earth itself, refusings its possessions, pleasures (sex), etc ?
I am GJPaul.wordpress.com – Protesting material nature’s harmful, killing life-order, and priviledged witness of various loving mystical persons involved in this life, and student of the prophets moses, jesus and krishna.
LikeLike
How can you Gregory J. “trust in Jesus for real” when you also trust in Krishna and various other mystical persons too?
LikeLike
“The beliefs of the Krishnas are typically Hindu and are largely incompatible with biblical Christianity. First, the view of God is basically pantheistic, meaning that they believe God is all and in all. For Hare Krishnas, God is everything and everything is God. For the Christian, God is transcendent—He is above all that He created. One of the tenets of ISKCON thought is that we actually achieve relational unity with God ourselves. Christians can relate somewhat to this idea since Bhakti Hinduism, to which ISKCON subscribes, is nearly theistic in its view of God and admittedly teaches that man can enter into a loving relationship with God. The Hare Krishna, however, is a little blurry on how relational this ultimate goal actually is. The goal of the Hare Krishna is to reach a “Krishna consciousness,” a kind of enlightenment. This is the deepest identification with Krishna. Insofar as ISKCON is truly Hindu, it can ascribe to a pantheistic view of God and therefore teach that man is ultimately identical to God. The Christian may recognize in these words a faint and deceptive whisper dating back to the Garden of Eden, “you will be as God” (Genesis 3:5).
Like all false religions, salvation for the Hare Krishna is reduced to a series of works. Yes, devotion and relationship are packed into their belief system. But these are built up from works. And, in practice, there remains a push to chant more, dance more, and always work harder lest one retain some bit of karmic debt and fail to enter into Krishna consciousness. Self-denial and sacrifice are also crucial for salvation in ISKCON. Salvation for the Hare Krishna is thoroughly entwined with the Hindu concept of karma, or retributive justice. This teaching requires belief in reincarnation and/or transmigration of the soul. One’s works, good and bad, are measured and judged either for or against him. He continues to be reincarnated into higher life forms if his deeds are good, or lower life forms if his deeds are bad. It is only when his good deeds have counterbalanced his bad deeds that he can cease the cycles of rebirth and realize his oneness with Krishna.
How different this is from the compassionate and merciful God of the Bible who “so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16). The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). No amount of good deeds can ever achieve salvation for anyone. And even where Hare Krishnas rightly assert that a loving relationship is necessary for salvation, Krishna is still the wrong object of devotion. Hare Krishnas, like all humanity, have only one hope for eternal life: Jesus Christ, crucified, resurrected and exalted forever. All other paths, sad to say, lead to destruction. Jesus Himself said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by Me” (John 14:6) for “there is salvation in no other one; for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
Got Questions Org
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Hare-Krishna.html#ixzz2gSMJt9qi
LikeLike
Monica, good Truths are spread about our human family and across all generations. Because I found some important lessons in Krishna’s Bhagavad Gita doesn’t then require I subscribe to the Hindu faith, and I don’t… nor the jewish faith, and I hold many reasonable criticisms of the christian faiths, indeed, ALL religions !
The best things I found from Krishna are an awareness of how our desires can adversely affect our perception and vision of things, how negative a force fear is, and how harmful anger can be. As I understand Krishna, he offered 2 paths to a life free from suffering… the path of knowledge, the path of good works. Unfortunately, hinduism discounts both as entirely optional, and India’s violent, cruel and despicable mistreatment of women speaks of a political and religious establishment UNFIT to rule and unworthy of respect.
Life and knowledge is not an all or none, black or white thing, albeit conservative natured people tend to think in black or white absolutes.
As for the opinions of the christian scholars, one actually must have a very very considerably rich multitude of decisively certain experiences of our mystical God to then hold any ethical right to then even attempt to define and describe God, but such evidences of that knowledge of God is NOT readily apparent in those scholars views … most rely on the ancient manuscripts to base their reasoning, and even geniune mystical experiences perceive only fractional glimpses of what I reason to be an infinite and gender-neutral personhood. We perceive of God only that which God gives us to, and I’ve yet to find anyone wheresoever whose claims of their knowledge of God stand up to critical challenge.
Religion is a power construct of conservative males intent on luring and controlling others to serve their own will, and the 1800 years of the catholic churches savage tyranny, lechery, greed, dishonesty, insincerity, etc are very well documented. Virtually all the world’s religions discount and devalue and marginalise the entire gender of all womenhood, and the cruel and condemnable mistreatment of the female, both older and young, brings up a fury in me my words cannot express.
I’m happy you decided to speak your mind Monica, and talk with me 🙂
I hope you’re a bit more aware my thinking is not constrained by beliefs nor dogma, but KNOWLEDGE. I intend to appeal to the Heartful to join the battle against the earth … harmful life, offering real evidences, reasonable opinions and tolerant debates and challenges.
LikeLike
“I’m happy you decided to speak your mind Monica, and talk with me”
Thank you Gregory,
You are very gracious. I am happy I did too. I am not afraid to ask questions, no matter how silly I may appear and I appreciate you taking the time to answer my post.
Our personal witness is our greatest strength. We may not be able to convince others of our spiritual experiences, but no-one can shake our faith in what we know to be truth. But, how do you guard against deception Gregory? I am not being facetious. It is a genuine and valid question for I know only too well that I cannot trust everything I perceive (spiritually speaking). I must have a safety net to keep me on course and the Bible, God’s Word, is my safety net. I must also say that I was never coerced or brainwashed into following the party line. I chose to defer to God’s Word of my own volition….and I’ll tell you why. Before I had even picked up the Bible and read it for myself, Jesus taught me Holy Scripture. He would speak to me (in the spirit, not audibly) and I would write down the words He spoke to me; the teachings He gave me and then I would go to the Bible and see if what I was hearing was truth or fantasy. And I would be amazed to find His teachings there, in black and white, in the Bible! And that is why you or anyone else cannot tell me that the Bible is NOT God’s Holy Word, written by divine inspiration.
And I have lived God’s Word and know it to be true. My faith is experiential, not just a belief or a doctrine, so, if we are both attuned to the Spirit, how is it that one can claim that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and the other say it is not, unless deception is at play here?
How can so many of us who claim to be on speaking terms with God, contradict each other so, unless we are listening to different gods (spirits) or to our own hearts? It upsets me. No wonder there is so much confusion when it comes to faith. But that’s why we must all guard against deception. I guess though, the one thing we all agree on is that God is Love. That’s what unites us because we know it to be true.
Cheers, Mon.
LikeLike
Perhaps in the same way as you can ‘trust in Jesus for real’, Mon, and also trust in “other mystical persons too” ….like the jewish god, which is equally “largely incompatible with biblical Christianity”.
D’you think?
LikeLike
Monica, I love the way you use the Bible, to verify the personal words of Jesus to you. This is different from tryng to accept every biblical author as speaking truths, conflicting, meant for all.
LikeLike
Well, Monica, I’m very pleased to hear you too have had an ongoing relationship with the loving mystical presence involved in this life. However, to say ” I must have a safety net to keep me on course and the Bible, God’s Word, is my safety net. ” gives me concern.
There are so many refutable passages in both the new and old testaments I’m not clear which would best illuminate my position for you.
1. If you read the gospels authors claims of what Jesus said about perfect rigtheousness ;
St.Matthew 19:21 “…if thou wilt be perfect, go and sell (all) that
thou hast, and give to the poor, ….and follow me”
St.Matthew 5:48 “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is
in Heaven is perfect”
St.Luke 9:23 “…if any person will come after me (follow me),
let them deny themself and take up their cross daily…”
St.John 14:12 “…They that believeth on me, the works that I do shall
they do also…”
St.Luke 14:33 “…whosoever they be of you that forsaketh not all
that they hath, they cannot be my disciple”
St Matthew 10:38 “And they that taketh not their cross, and follow
after me, is not worthy of me”
St.Luke 17:33 “Whosoever shall seek to save their life shall lose
it, and whosoever shall lose their life shall preserve it”
St.Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, Lord, (I did
believe in you), shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but they that
doeth the will (is lawful/righteous) of my father, which is in heaven”
St.Matthew 5:20 “For I say unto you, that except your righteousness
(lawfulness) shall exceed the righteousness (lawfulness) of the scribes
and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven”
Now, consider this.
If one is only completely righteous when disavowing ( renouncing ) all ones possessions, even the value and defence of ones own body ( as one should not resist evil, and one should not love the body (beast/animal), and Jesus is directly offering an eternal non-material/spiritual life apart from the material domain, ( putting aside John’s Revelation’s contradiction of Jesus ), to keep possessions, which in effect is to carry on living ones own life on earth ( without possessions none could survive on earth, and please, lets not invoke the expectation/tempting for miracles. ) is to be LESS THAN completely righteous, sothen necessarily UNRIGHTEOUS ( aka sinful and due for punishment ) !
Now, moral right serves the continunance of life and MUST serve that continuance in life’s EVERY resident circumstance, regardless the moral conditions of that circumstance (aka a harmul, predatory, disease-ridden circumstance like this earth’s )
Otherwise, all are forced and driven into death, AND, all moral right and wrong collapse… ALL acts which harm and destroy those lives serves the will to end such life, and God’s will can only be understood to desire our deaths !
My view is Jesus’s moral perfection is a falsehood, though it may be its the authors, not Jesus, which defined that perfection.
Even so, if John the Baptist was LESS THAN the LEAST in Heaven, and John most denied the earth, and himself, and dedicated his life to serving God, but that was NOT sufficient to justify his acceptance into heaven, then NO ONE on earth could ever attain Gods Heaven !
( the idea john had too many moral debts to warrant heaven seems unlikely, certainly if one understands ALL on earth have moral debts, a loving person is an understanding, merciful, and forgiving soul, and we are what God itself has made us to be. )
If you consider how humankind came to know this harmful, mortal life on earth, the book of Genesis offers an explaination, however, it too doesn’t stand up to challenge.
In the old Testament’s book of ‘ Genesis ‘, the premise of the ancient Jews ( and Jesus ) is we suffer and die due to our offences, and if completely right-doing we’d have eternal life.
Now, before ‘ Adam and Eve ‘ chose to want to experience and know ‘ evil ‘ they must have been perfectly righteous, for that action is said to have been their first ‘ sin ‘ and the cause for their inevitable deaths. Adam and Eve could NOT have been born into ‘ eden ‘ as it was a material place on earth and the material reality is foundationally a limited and mortal life.
The story of Adam and Eve, and the gospels description of perfect righteousness, perfectly example my understanding how much of the bible is infact OPINION, NOT FACT, and most definitely NOT the words of God, and I have many more examples to offer.
The alledged statement by Jesus they were an adulterous GENERATION makes no sense. We are an adulterous SPECIES, where males, both hetero and homo sexual, hunger for sex from our adolescence, even into old age. The female is bonded to the need for a mans love and care, yet she virtually never receives the types nor degrees of emotional understanding and comfort and sharing she is made to need from any man. Together, these 2 facts form the ongoing widspread ‘ hanky panky ‘ which every generation has lived by.
Monica, I can’t see any other place to go on this subject. I challenge so many things for Truth and these types of insights often very soon follow.
I do very much relate to you seeing the need for anchors in ones trust of Jesus. My anchors are my life filled with mystical experiences, my Soul’s and Heart’s natural concern for the suffering and dislike for the harmful, how much my vision and Heart increased in sacrifice, and my agreement with some of the essential attitudes of Jesus, albeit those are scripturally found. I most certainly don’t have all nor most of the answers, but enough to dedicate my remaing years to trying to defeat the earth ( and its master).
LikeLike
Interesting, I’ve never met a single christian who doesn’t insist their bible is the words of God, even after I’d explained some obvious falsehoods in the bible, not withstanding the scores of translations which say meaningfully different things.
I feel rather like a foolish fish which had just been lured.
LikeLike
Hi Dabbles,
I’m certainly with you on Smart Meters. In my area of the State there are several small groups that are putting up resistence against these devices. I’ve been personally involved with a couple for several months; and we are trying to educate the community about the many dangers.
In the last three months I’ve forwarded half a dozen stern letters to Powercor, about my concerns, and with the object of refusing to have a Smart Meter installed at my home. Somehow it has been gratifying so far, in that they have not sent me any aggressive or threatening letters, such as I’ve learnt have gone to other protesters.
The last letter I got from them came from their Customer service chief who was quite civil and even offered some suggestions for alternative installation methods that (potentially) sounded just a little bit healthier.
It’s got to come to a head some time soon. Interesting to see just how far I can get to in the process of telling them ‘NO’.
Rian.
LikeLike
I remember that Jesus spoke of other sheep in other folds. He was the Word, or expression of God, that had existed from the beginning of time. I am sure God is capable of expressing Himself in far more cultures than the Jewish one.
Speaking to the Jews, Jesus is reported as saying no-one could come to God but by himself. That was God’s word to people of that world, that culture, that understanding, at tnat time. No-one could come to God without following the precepts that Jesus taught, precepts also taught by other Expressions of God (His Word from the beginning of time) in other lands, other cultures, to people of other understandings. ‘Other sheep have I, in other folds.’
But GJPaul, you believein God’s personal guidance. I know it’s difficult for you, living alone and with advanced COPD, to gather together with two or three others to wait in silence on God, and so verify your beliefs as truly divinely inspired, or in part rising from your own subconscious. Love you.
LikeLike
There’s a groundswell of resistance against the ‘Smart Meters’, Rian, supported by discoveries and happenings from around the globe, including the organisation of a class-action here in Vic, based on fairly sound legal advice. Y’can have have a look at some of the activities/info. here:- stopsmartmeters.com.au
There’s a rally in Melb. next Saturday, too, and people are coming from all over.
It’s good to see people willing to put up a fight in the public interest, even if Australia doesn’t have a very good track-record. So while I lend a little support, as always I’ve made my own arrangements. Secured the property and (long-since) set up alternative energy supplies….and have been urging everyone to look at similar (DIY – not commercial) alternatives: they’re simple and really VERY cheap to buy these days. (My first solar panels ~ second-hand ~ in the early 80s cost $13.80 per watt; these days you can get them for well under $1 per watt.
And all the ancilliary gear is not equally cheap but also MUCH more efficient. (email dabbbles@gmail.com if you, or anyone else, want to go into it.)
I’ve got a 2.5 kw system connected to the grid which can more than supply my needs, and I’ve always intended to rerig that into a stand-alone system when it stops being a money-spinner. Ditto the other ‘services’. The sense of independence and SECURITY is nothing short of grand!……as is the satisfaction when you’re able to DARE the would-be bullies to carry out their threats (to ha-ha disconnect!) Could tell you a yarn or two. 😉
LikeLike
Hello Gregory,
“I feel rather like a foolish fish which had just been lured.”
I am sorry you feel that way as there certainly was no deliberate intention on my part to do any such thing. On the contrary, I very much appreciate the time and effort you have taken to speak with me. From the bottom of my heart, thank you very much!
There is so much material you have given here for lengthy and insightful discussions and I so wish I had the time right now to tackle everything you have brought up, but unfortunately I haven’t. Perhaps at a later date? And best to tackle one Scripture at a time I think. But for now Gregory, I feel an overwhelming compulsion to say this to you…. “Ye must be Born Again of the Spirit of God!”
“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again” (John 3:1-7).
“The Gospel is not a call to repentance, or to amendment of our ways, to make restitution for past sins, or to promise to do better in the future. These things are proper in their place, but they do not constitute the Gospel; for the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed. Do not make the mistake then of thinking that the Gospel is a call to duty or a call to reformation, a call to better your condition, to behave yourself in a more perfect way than you have been doing in the past …
Nor is the Gospel a demand that you give up the world, that you give up your sins, that you break off bad habits, and try to cultivate good ones. You may do all these things, and yet never believe the Gospel and consequently never be saved at all.” (Pastor Harry A. Ironside)
Being spiritually alive is not about religion. You can make a religion out of anything, especially self-denial, but Salvation is NOT found in a religion or a religious mindset, but in a Person—The Lord Jesus Christ.
Perhaps something for you to think about Gregory.
Till next time.
LikeLike
Monica ;
If Jesus speaks to you and such validates the bibles passages as truelly God’s words, then Jesus would tell you the very same things the gospels do ; you MUST take-up the quest for perfect righteousness, sell ALL your possessions, and give ALL your money to the poor, also renounce and abstain from all sexual desire and behaviour, and commit your days to doing what Jesus did, and commands followers must do, to go about commanding and threatening all to do the same.
Now, if you then flee to Romans and Paul, your entire statement of your witness of Jesus and the truth of the scripture collapses.
I’m aware how cleverly protestants have manipulated the passages, and their intrepretations, of the new testament to discount Jesus in favour of Paul.
As I’ve said, both Jesus and Paul cannot be right and true. One cannot believe Jesus was the Son of God and of Gods Soul and perfectly good and then lead others away from his teachings and laws and cross. If Jesus was perfectly good and righteous, his lessons and commandments are also good and righteous, but I’ve laboured these Truths as much as needs be and once again I note… devout protestants cannot be reasoned with !
LikeLike
I love Matthew 11 where Jesus speaks of our beloved John the Baptist. It always brings tears to my eyes as I imagine how low John must have been feeling in prison at that time. My God, what these mighty Bible heros had to go through for their faith.
But even so, even with all of John’s self-denial; his Nazarite vow to God, for all of “his indescribable ascetic struggles in the desert; for the boundless depths of his prayer and fasting; for the great labor of preaching with which he prepared the way of the Lord; for the Baptism of the Son of God in the Jordan; for his martyric death – for all this, the least in the Heavenly Kingdom was greater than he.” Why?
11:11 But he that is least in the kingdom of heaven, is greater than he – “Which an ancient author explains thus: – One perfect in the law, as John was, is inferior to one who is baptized into the death of Christ. For this is the kingdom of heaven, even to be buried with Christ, and to be raised up together with him.
John was greater than all who had been then born of women, but he was cut off before the kingdom of heaven was given. [He seems to mean, that righteousness, peace, and joy, which constitute the present inward kingdom of heaven.] He was blameless as to that righteousness which is by the law; but he fell short of those who are perfected by the spirit of life which is in Christ.
Whosoever, therefore, is least in the kingdom of heaven, by Christian regeneration, is greater than any who has attained only the righteousness of the law, because the law maketh nothing perfect. It may farther mean, the least true Christian believer has a more perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ, of his redemption and kingdom, than John the Baptist had, who died before the full manifestation of the Gospel.” (Wesleys Notes)
LikeLike
I thought we were having a civil discussion Gregory.
But I guess we “devout Protestants” just piss you off. Time to call it quits me thinks.
Best Wishes, Mon
LikeLike
extra comment 2
Jesus has assured us our life is certainly safe/protected when serving God’s will ; for love and righteousness, and the sacrifices those require, even if our body dies or is killed so doing. Jesus offered and gave His own life to evidence and prove this Holy Truth in His crucifiction and resurrection, not as some token of suffering to pay-off our debts because we won’t trust and believe in Him !
Infact, protestants do NOT believe in Jesus, nor Trust in the Holy sanctity of Love and sacrifice. FEAR and DOUBT drives you to Paul, not God.
LikeLike
extra comment 3
If one is not part of the solution, then one is part of the problem. To keep and enjoy ones own life both adds to and perpetuates the harms and crimes and injustices of the earth. How is it so many many christians have such prosperity ! How is it your churches are multi-billion dollar spectacles of symbolic art and music and treasures ! How is you marry and bring children into this domain of harm and disease and evil overflowing, AND tell your children you love them !
St.Luke 11:23 “They that is not with me is against me, and they that gathereth not with me scattereth”
St.Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters…Ye cannot serve God and mammon (money) ” (those two also being self-concern or concern for others)
St.John 12:25 “They that loveth their life (on earth) shall lose it, and they that hateth their life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal”
LikeLike
“How is you marry and bring children into this domain of harm and disease and evil overflowing, AND tell your children you love them !”
Gregory,
Think!
Do you honestly believe that we should all be like you—a Eunuch—never having sex and never bearing children? Surely not?
And about the ‘Prosperity Gospel’ in the Christian churches—yes, I agree with you, there is much that is amiss and perverted in our churches, much excess and manipulation of the faithful. Why? Because Church is made up of flawed individuals who have not yet apprehended God’s truth. It has its fair share of false prophets and false preachers and that is why we are admonished to be grounded in the Word of God to keep us on track. But at the same time we who follow Christ are called ‘blessed’ and unless God specifically calls us to live a life of poverty to further the gospel, then being wretched, hungry, naked and without life’s necessities, and yes, even comforts that make living more joyful, is not a blessing! God wants to bless us. He gives us talents (blessings), some more than others, and all He requires of us is that we be good stewards with what He has given us.
LikeLike
Like that Mon.
LikeLike
Monica… it appears you deem our debate civil when you get what you want and reason your position prevails.
Please, let me try again.
When the being of life is good, the eternal continuance of life becomes pure/perfect goodness. Of this, harm against a life becomes also an offence against the being of eternal life, hence, against God, and this is why love for all life is Gods nature and will and law. So too, God’s Son Jesus is of this same Soul and Virtue and Truth.
To discount ones need and duty to value and care-for other lives is the seed of offence against God, and as eternal life is also perfect health and peace (Grace), the seed of offence also becomes the desire for death and suffering.
If harm could prevail over love, all life would turn to death and all death to suffering, and eternally so, theoretically.
However, the cosmos is an eternal being of life and cannot be defeated.
Even so, the finite universal materal construct desires and serves all manner and degree of harm and offence against life, and ALL its lives are suffered, individually, in lesser to greater ways and degrees. Ones only way out of this life of death and harm and suffering is to commit oneself to the love and protection on life, which needs one also disavow and deny and forsake the earth’s havings. This was the life and purpose and lessons of Jesus on the earth, and Jesus was of the Soul and Virtue and Truths ( knowledge ) of God.
I am a witness to the Truths of God, to Gods love for all life, and Gods presence in this life.
I am a witness to and student of Gods Son Jesus, and His presence in this life.
I have earned my way to the understandings I’ve been given, though I hold no authority to speak on behalf of God nor Jesus. I take up my role by my love for livingkind and my will against harm. I carry on in fair trust I don’t mislead, and indeed serve the good of all life. I will not tolerate the earth nor submit to it.
My name is Gregory John Paul, I’m in my 61st year of life. I’m progressively dying from severe lung-destroying COPD emphysema and asthma. My life has been filled with mistakes and failures and regrets. There has been mystical presence in my life since my early childhood. I suppose I’ve only a short season to speak. I am what I am.
LikeLike
Thank you Gregory.
As the apostle Paul is, so too am I persuaded that “neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thank you for sharing your heart with us. Keep speaking.
And, may God bless you, body, soul and spirit.
Love to you, Mon.
LikeLike
Before I depart this blog of Bryan’s, there’s a few last things I’d like to say.
Firstly, there are but two camps in the story of life on earth, they which like and support earthly life, as the wealthy, the powerful, the faiths of Judaism, Islam, etc, and they which dislike and oppose this earthly life, as they which have so much unjustly suffered, and they which hate its harmfulness.
Now, Paul/Saul was a jew and he was raised with the views and attitudes of the jewish culture, but Saul disputed and rejected the laws of the rabbi’s, and in turn also rejected the laws of Jesus, once he decided to join the different faith in Jesus.
As it means, by rejecting his need of duties to Jesus’s laws and cross, Saul effectively also rejected Jesus’s core value of opposition to the earth, sothen reverting to the jewish attitude earthly life was good and God’s will.
By Martin Luther’s decision to refute the authority of the catholic church, by the terrrible savagry and tyranny and greed and lechery etc of the church, he apparently reasoned the catholic priests held power over all peoples, in his interest, the german peoples, by their claims they had the authority and powers of Jesus to forgive sins via Jesus’s disciple Peter. Luther then searched his new testament for a way to refute the priests authority, hence Sauls/Pauls rejection there be any need or duty to the laws of Jesus, and his arguements
a mere professed belief in Jesus was sufficient for ones right to life after the earth in God’s presence and eternal society.
Luther had, in effect, over simplified his solution, and failed to consider the most obvious other consequences of his new alliance with Saul/Paul, most critically, his very opposition to Jesus Himself, and his opposition to Jesus’s foundational arguement against the earth, which also represent the will of God, for those will genuinely trust and believe in Jesus.
Now, though the gospels authors claim Jesus warned against an eternal punishment for the shamless, uncaring predators of this life, the real facts are material life is naturally a mortal, limited life where all offence and harm against others is limited, all moral debts are limited, and all penalties are limited. Of this, all which do offend will know death for a time, but then be reborn back to life again, as Gods loving nature is also Gods perfect Justice and true moral justice cannot condemn any life to eternal death from only limited offence.
For they which sincerely and truelly meaningfully believe and trust in and follow and join and serve Jesus’s opposition to the earth, and its harms and offences and injustices etc, Jesus promises tolerance, understanding, mercy and forgiveness. In whole benefit, they are granted welcome acceptance into Gods gracious eternal society.
For they which don’t genuinely believe in Jesus, and/or so much indulge the benefits and pleasures of the earth, also then unduly offending righteousness, as honesty, decency, etc, and harming and neglecting other lives, etc ;
St.Matthew 7:21 ” Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, Lord, (I did believe in you), shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but they that doeth the will (is lawful/righteous) of my father, which is in heaven ”
St.John 14:15 ” If ye love me, keep my commandments ”
The cosmos is an eternal and infinite living being we personably name as God, and it stands True, that which derives from an infinite thing neither reduces nor increases that infinite thing. Also True, an infinite number of other things can be derived from a first, parental infinite host, and again, they neither reduce nor increase that infinite host.
Consider what death might mean… in perfect life there is perfect health and peace (Grace), but in death there is neither health nor peace. In perfect life there is loving and involved company… what is there in death ?
So these are our choices and these are some of the consequences I reason to be. If one loves and keeps the earth, though they will eventually be reborn into another material life, if they won’t regret themselves, and reclaim the loving Heart and will, and dislike and refuse that material life, they’re then destined to an eternal life and death and rebirth cycle, effectively meaning infinite suffering !
Its not my intention to threaten you, but teach you the errors of your way. It remains your choice if you will hear me and recognise me. If you would and do, you are welcome to visit my blog and we together can carry-forward to better understand ourselves and the issues of life.
LikeLike
Or you could stick around and face up to the challenges. Whatever, thanks for being here.
LikeLike
Bryan, your choice of terms used insult me, and its obvious you intend to bully me, typical of how the morely right-wing conservatives treat those which differ from themselves, and use bullying to get what they want and have things their way.
On this dark and savage planet, and across all generations, the conservative male has discounted and demeaned the value and rights of women. The conservative males core values are power, status, wealth and pleasure, and he bullies and assaults and enslaves others, including women and the Heartful, to get what he wants and have things his way.
The current widspread misogyny on social media sites echoe the savage and cruel exploitation of women in the pornograpohic sex-trade of the internet, the 10,000s of family-honour murders of female daughters each year in islamic cultures, the crude and brutal sexual harrasment and assaults of women in police work, women in the military and workplace, and even in their own homes !
Indeed, bullies are everywhere and not confined to hurting women, and many bullies are female.
Belief out of intended context
Protestants have taken belief in Jesus to a wrong place and extreme, for Jesus intended belief to become ones will and acts for love and consideration and compassion and mercy… righteousness, which Jesus teaches IS the nature and will of God.
From ones belief in Jesus Jesus also promises His involvement in ones personal life, offering helping messages for ones attitudes and choices and behaviours in the context of righteousness, NOT to exempt one from that righteousness, as Paul, and his protestants, have decided on their own.
Jesus also offers messages of questions and issues to further ones maturing of their understanding of Gods righteousness, but ;
St.Mark 4:19 ” And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things ( like sex ), entering in, choke the word and it becomes unfruitful ”
As for Rowntree and Cadbury, the issues of wealth and civil kindness are conflicting values, and Jesus makes His views on this clear ;
St.Matthew6:21 ” For where your treasure is, there will your Heart be also ”
St.Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters…Ye cannot serve God and mammon (wealth) “.
Profit-trade, aka capitalism, is a predatory system of trade when owners and sellers profit and gain by the losses and suffering of buyers and labour. The core ploy of the wealth hungry is to become a property and resource owner, for then all needy people must deal with them and they can turns things anyway they choose soto increase their own wealth and status and power. The worlds rich discount the value of all lives which have not wealth soto keep themselves rationally and emotionally indifferent to all the sufferings and tears and blood-let and losses they cause.
I guess the Son of God must be wrong again though, for all 3 major christian churches chief priests luxuriate in wealth and art and servantry and pleasures etc., even as the ancient rabbis in Saul’s Israel acquired and indulged such things, even having Jesus killed by His new law and cross which would put an end to what those rabbis were doing.
( as do so many many protestants luxuriate in prosperity… can you say Billy Graham, the biggest and worst of that lot of two-faced predators, exploiting protestants belief in nearly anything if its cloaked in scriptural verse. )
( Saul also rejected their insistance to their law, and we can all see how hassidics actually carry about books of their laws to consult every now and then to resolve the questions and issues of right and wrong in the context of their God. )
LikeLike
Gregory, I had no intention of bullying you. And as for being a right-wing conservative, well the people who know me well would laugh at that.
Perhaps you should investigate a little more before you jump to conclusions. But it seems you are apt to make grand statements without evidence to back it up. But as I said, thanks for being here and I hope you stay to debate what are important issues. If you’re open enough.
LikeLike
As I understand this issue of the protestant religion, and I do, protestant’s claims and insistance their bible is the inspired word of God is simply NOT true.
Protestants do not believe in the truths nor Holiness of the gospels, and protestants do neither trust in nor follow nor respect the gospels Jesus.
Protestants oppose the gospels Jesus to follow after the jew Saul, and Saul opposed and subverted the Holiness of Gods Son Jesus by inventing his own law against Jesus’s, and the romans murdered Jesus to pacify the jews, and protestants most rely upon Sauls book of romans.
So be it. you’ve made your choice, and care-not what it means against the life and lessons and will and Holiness of Jesus. What you reap is what you sow. You deny your duty to Love and Righteousness… Love and Righteousness denies you.
I am done with you
LikeLike
Bryan, it seems to me that Gregory is not really a free thinker but rather a
paranoid man who is so hurt by life that he has locked himself into what he wants to be true rather than what is true.
LikeLike
I was surprised that GJP accused me of bullying him and then tried to insult me by calling me a right-wing conservative. But I thought it was more funny than anything else. Fear makes people think and say strange things sometimes. No=one’s perfect.
LikeLike
Gosh,
At first I judged and dismissed a certain person outright. I still stand by what I said though, that in reality an Antichrist spirit is at play here. It is a spirit that wants to kill and devour, but I realised that my impatience needed to be worked on so I then tried to not react again, and to be engaging and understanding. Still hit a brick wall though; the situation is still the same, but amazingly, I’ve changed through this experience. Now I can’t stop crying for this person. My heart is broken. Perhaps that’s how Jesus feels; His compassion for the lost (sorry, I want to use a different word but lost is the word I feel to use)…..who knows?
I just have to make one last comment, that “The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is a perfect shelter of grace.”
LikeLike
I agree with you Mon. There seems to be a palpable spirit of anger and fear at play. that is out of the ordinary. Compassion is the best response.
LikeLike
I feel so sorry for you Gregory. Please seek help
LikeLike
Too many assumptions and too much lack of definition.
But anyone who tries to take my individualism will have a fight on their hands.
The LACK of individuality, in its many forms, is the most threatening and destructive force in the world today; it’s what armies are created of ~ hence war; it’s the root of all (thoughtless) addictions, and the basis for all slavery, from Centerlink, religions, promotion of football fanaticism, to tax-impositions enforced by severe penalties whether one wants/approves-of the alleged ‘benefits’ also imposed. etcetcetc.
And it’s also the source of countless databanks all churning away creating non-human, easily-managed carbon units.
Just in the last few days Google has been playing funny-buggers in trying to coerce me (using my addiction to Google products) into signing up for an (innocuous-sounding) “account” with Google ~ the fine-print of which allows Google to invade every part of my computer-system, record anything and everything it chooses and dealing with such information in any way it chooses. (Including already selling info. to the CIA, NSA etc.) I’d kick up a stink on Facebook, but that’s even worse already.
Google has even been demanding the right to censor what is uploaded and downloaded on YouTube; to date only the French Government (bless their little froggy hearts) have stood up to the IT giant, which wants the French government to waive all privacy laws ~ as, presumably, other governments already have.
…………(and there are moves underway to allow your computer’s camera and microphone to act as spy monitors and transmitters in every home.)
Big Brother, your day has come! ~ and in just about exactly the way Orwell predicted, only much more hi-tech.
The roll-out of the ‘Smart Meters’ by the power-company monopolies in cahoots with succssive governments (Thanks to mongrels like Jeff Bloody Kennet and Gang!) has the same potential and motive: batching people into easily managable, manipulatible and milkable slave-groups.
The day will come ~ as biblicly confirmed! ~ when you’ll have to produce a microchipped card (or when every kid will have a chip inserted at birth) before you’re allowed to fart, let alone buy food or petrol, or access power or communications, etc.
Can any of you identify any essential differences between the slaves of the Deep South and any population in the Western World today? Y’can’t even opt out and leave without the government’s approval ( and paying the extortion money demanded!), any more than a Virginian slave could leave HIS assigned position. The main difference being that escaped niggers had a safe-haven available not far away; I can’t think of many safe-havens left anywhere in the world
And, Bryan, your divested-of-individuality kids or grandkids won’t be able to hide from enforced induction into the military, labour-corps or any other institution in which their presence is politically required.
The only consolation will be that they won’t have a clue what their father/grandfather is talking about when he brags about having evaded the politically-mandated obligation to kill people on the other side of the world with whom he’d never had a quarrel.
All but one* of the listed “Social Evils” :- “…… the decline of community, (individualism*), consumerism and greed, a decline of values, the decline of the family, young people as both victims and perpetrators, drugs and alcohol, poverty and inequality, immigration and responses to it, and crime and violence.”
…….are a DIRECT consequence of the grinding-down of the individual into homogenous slush: Soylent Green walking.
It may be the reason a very indivualistic Jesus has decided not to come back.
He probably realises he’d be crucified on a cross called Social Engineering after having been scourged with a whip called ‘political correctness’.
LikeLike
You know, it does sound crazy, but you’re on the right track Dabbles. A lot of this does happen. Individualism means selfishness? I’m not sure I would put it that way and it does really irk me.
Google are rapidly getting a bad reputation. It just goes to show how a little power does go to people’s heads and they think they rule the world. Big Brother is well and truly with us. I’ve never particularly trusted though, that anything was ever really private.
LikeLike
…er… Why is my being on the right track crazy, Kathleen? 🙂
(Sorry: couldn’t resist! ~ love this language!)
The idea that “Individualism means selfishness” is in itself part of the same conditioning process ~ all of which is aimed at stopping people from thinking. Even a good mate of mine ~ who knows me well and is no mug ~ is susceptible to that process. (Probably because of his job.)
Just the other night he accused me of becoming conservative (in my old age!!) because I disagreed with a couple of ‘Bleeding-Heart-Leftie comments he’d made. The accusation arose from the conventional (ie ‘unthinking’) acceptance of the idea that ‘conservatives’ can’t care about the poor and downtrodden and other dysfunctional people.
He knows better, of course, our concerns and attitudes have always been pretty-much in tune and that hasn’t changed. Though he picked himself up quickly it went to demonstrate yet again how subtle the brainwashing-laundry can be if you don’t consciously maintain your individual right and capacity to think.
…and recognise the danger.
LikeLike
It’s the way I word things Dabbles. I get things back to front sometimes.
I meant that even though it all may sound crazy, you are right 🙂
LikeLike
I completely agree with your second comment.
That’s why I love you Dabs, you conservative old fart 🙂 (until the next time I completely disagree with you)
LikeLike
Easy, Kate. Easy. ~ just a leg-pull.
You made yourself perfectly clear; it’s just that the language of the bard is such that it can be ‘accented’ or ‘nuanced’ in so many ways ~ very often using exactly the same words, phrases and punctuation,
….and sometimes it just tickles my fancy to notice double, triple or even quadruple entendres.
Shakespeare’s genius lay in being able to do so endlessly, and that’s why he has no peer in any other lingo.
(CJDennis got in a few sly ones, too.)
LikeLike
I watched the 1978 movie ‘Coma’ today Dabs.
I’ve seen it before, and it still terrifies me.
LikeLike
Haven’t seen it; will make a point of doing so. We Conspiracy Theorists need ll the ammo we can get.
Meanwhile, for the same message in ‘Hilarious’ mode, do check out ‘The Couch Trip’ which I recommend to Jimbo recently.
………Come to think of it, Jimbo hasn’t surfaced since, has he? 😯
LikeLike
Me too. Buddhism offers a ‘ nirvana ‘, and ones union with the non-individuated consciousness of an infinite being, effectively meaning the end to oneself as an individual of self-will and consciousness and choice and feelings… Buddhism is NOT for me !
However, america’s founding ‘ fathers ‘, which happened to be radical puritans from western europe, decided they had God’s will and blessing to be both free and wealthy, and america’s claims of superiority over ALL other cultures and nation, its reckless and self-sickening ‘ everything goes ‘ liberalism of excessive and destructive freedom, and its global war-mongering, not as the world’s police, but for their own economy, americas greed, are proofs of the negatives extremes hold.
LikeLike
Individualism is an issue because the idea of team has been lessened.
But there are greater evils I believe. One of the fastest so growth areas are the technologies and social networking. As an educationalist I see this everyday with greater issues schools are dealing with. Children are becoming more influenced by porn, drugs and other ills at a younger age. Working in prisons too I see more “criminal” thinking from young people. They also simply do not get that what they post online has social, legal, economic and health consequences. I believe more is to come.
LikeLike
“This shutdown is totally unnecessary” President Obama
LikeLike
Joseph Rowntree, the son of a Quaker grocer, was born in York on 24th May, 1834. After only five years of schooling Joseph began work as a grocer. He started with his father at fourteen but part of his apprenticeship involved working in London. While working in the city Joseph became very interested in politics and regularly attended debates at the House of Commons.
Rowntree returned to work for his father but in 1869 he left to join his brother, Henry Rowntree, who owned the Cocoa, Chocolate & Chicory Works in York. The company only employed thirty workers at the time, but under Joseph’s influence the company grew rapidly and by the end of the century it was an enormous international concern with over 4,000 employees. One important development was the decision to produce Fruit Pastilles in 1881. Other new products included Chocolate Drops, Fruit Gums and Jelly Babies.
On the death of Henry in 1883, Joseph Rowntree became the owner of the company. As well as running this fast-growing business, Rowntree devoted a considerable time to public work. He served on the committee responsible for two Quaker schools in York and taught in an Adult School on Sunday. Rowntree also played a leading role in the establishment of the York Public Library. He also provided a park in York as a memorial to those killed during the First World War.
Influenced by the book Poverty, A Study of Town Life, written by his son Benjamin Seebohm Rowntree, Joseph Rowntree attempted to improve the quality of his employees’ lives. He provided a library in the factory and free education for workers under seventeen. A social welfare officer, doctor and a dentist were employed to provide free services for the workforce. Joseph Rowntree also donated £10,000 in 1906 to establish a Pension Fund for his workers. One of his main innovations was to give the workers a say in the appointment of their immediate supervisors.
Rowntree’s major concern was to find ways of reducing poverty. In 1863 he produced a statistical study on the links between crime and poverty. Two years later he published a second study, Pauperism in England and Wales. Rowntree also provided practical help for the poor and in 1901 he purchased 123 acres at New Earswick to build houses for low-income families.
Rowntree was a supporter of the Liberal Party. In 1907 he funded the Nation, a weekly journal that advocated social reform. Three years later he helped purchase the Morning Leader and The Star, in order to stop the newspapers falling into the hands of supporters of the Conservative Party.
A long time active member of the Temperance Society, Rowntree wrote several books and pamphlets on the subject including The Temperance Problem and Social Reform (1900), Public Control of the Liquor Trade (1903) and The Taxation of the Liquor Trade (1906).
Rowntree was very critical of the Anglican Church for what he considered to be its lack of interest in dealing with social injustice. Rowntree was also in favour of abolishing the House of Lords, an institution that he believed was hampering social progress. Rowntree retained his interest in politics and social welfare until his death in 1925.
© John Simkin, September 1997 – June 2013
LikeLike
Like minded.
George Cadbury, the son of John Cadbury, a tea and coffee dealer, was born in Edgbaston, Birmingham in 1839. The Cadbury family were members of the Society of Friends and sent George to the local Quaker school. George’s mother, Candia Cadbury, who was an active supporter of the Temperance Society died in 1855. John Cadbury’s health was also poor so George’s education came to an end and he joined family business.
At the age of twenty-two, George and his elder brother, Richard, assumed control of the company. Five years later Cadburys became the first company in Britain to sell cocoa. The cocoa beans were roasted, winnowed, ground and then mixed with sugar to make chocolate powder. Customers added hot water or milk to the powder to make a popular drink.
Despite the demands of running a large company, George Cadbury was committed to spending time helping those less privileged than himself. Cadbury often said: “We can do nothing of any value to God, except in acts of genuine helpfulness done to our fellow men.”. Every Sunday morning Cadbury taught classes at the Birmingham Adult School. Although organised by Quakers, the school was non-sectarian and encouraged students to take part in the activities of their own churches.
In 1879 the company premises were no longer large enough for the rapidly expanded business. A new 15 acre site four miles outside of Birmingham was chosen for the new factory. The factory was named Bournville after the name of the small stream that ran through the site. Bournville was an attractive area and it became known as the “factory in a garden”.
At first Cadbury built 24 houses for their key workers at Bournville. Later Cadbury built another 300 houses to form Bournville Village. These houses were superior to working class homes of that time, with larger rooms and generous sized gardens. Another innovation was to group the houses around cul-de-sacs or gardens. A school, hospital, reading rooms and wash-houses were also built for the people in the village.
Cadbury Brothers already had a reputation as a good employer, having introduced Saturday half days and Bank Holiday closing. At Bournville Cadbury introduced a wide variety of sporting and recreational facilities. There was a kitchen for heating up food and later a works canteen was added. The company also provided medical and dental treatment.
Cadbury Brothers made their first milk chocolate in 1897. At first it was similar to the chocolate being imported from Switzerland but later the company started using fresh full cream milk to make a lighter coloured chocolate. Called Cadbury’s Dairy Milk, it soon became Britain’s best selling chocolate bar.
Cadbury was a strong supporter of William Gladstone and represented the Liberal Party on both Birmingham Town Council and Worcestershire County Council. In 1901 he purchased the Daily News and used it to campaign for old age pensions and against sweated labour. As a pacifist, Cadbury was also a strong opponent of the Boer War.
In the grounds of his home, Northfield Manor, Cadbury arranged for the construction of a building that could seat 700 people. Every year during the summer months, Cadbury provided food and entertainment for about 25,000 children from the deprived areas of Birmingham. In 1906 George Cadbury paid £60,000 into a pension fund for his employees.
Cadbury continued to work at the Birmingham Adult School every Sunday morning. It was estimated that over a fifty year period he taught over 4,000 students. Twice a year he organised reunions at Northfield Manor that were attended by around 1,000 people.
Cadbury opposed Britain’s involvement in the First World War and disillusioned with the way the Liberal Government behaved in 1914 switched his financial support to the ant-war Independent Labour Party. Cadbury joined with E.D. Morel, Ramsay MacDonald, Arthur Ponsonby, Arthur Rowntree and other critics of the government’s foreign policy to form the Union of Democratic Control (UDC). Over the next couple of years the UDC became the leading anti-war organisation in Britain.
George Cadburydied at Northfield Manor on 24th October, 1922.
LikeLike
Another like mind. In part, Quakers were attracted to the chocolate trade because they hoped to alleviate the social ills caused by alcohol.
Chocolate first came to Europe as plunder from the New World. After the conquest of Mayan and Aztec civilizations, European elites brewed chocolate as a beverage. It was a drink for princes and patricians.
In 1657, the first shop of its kind peddled chocolate to the citizens of London. Still served as a beverage, chocolate soon won the endorsement of the Paris faculty of medicine.
As the 17th Century drew to a close, Friends were gaining a reputation as good merchants. Of course, few other career paths were open to them. Quakers were excluded from the universities. And, as people committed to nonviolence, careers in the military were certainly out of the question!
In time, Quaker merchants were attracted to the chocolate trade. With its medicinal qualities endorsed by estimable scholars, Friends embraced chocolate as a healthy alternative to alcohol.
The first Quaker to make a name for himself in the chocolate trade was a British physician named Joseph Fry. Friend Joseph’s Bristol shop sold pharmaceuticals. He included chocolate among his other wares.
By 1795, the Fry family had nearly 50 years of experience in the chocolate business. That year, with the help of a Watts steam engine, Fry’s Chocolate became the first chocolatier to use factory methods in the manufacture of their product.
In 1824, at the tender age of 23, Quaker John Cadbury was given a sum of money by his father and told to “sink or swim.” Perhaps inspired by the liquid imagery of his father’s ultimatum, Cadbury opened a shop selling tea, coffee and cocoa. Cadbury’s shop was also noteworthy for its plate glass window (the first in Birmingham) and for employing a Chinese clerk at the tea counter.
The trinity of Quaker chocolate is completed by the name Rowntree. The Quaker Rowntrees opened their chocolate shop in York.
During the 19th Century, Friends helped to transform the way we eat chocolate. Up until this time, chocolate was a beverage — or perhaps an ingredient in other recipes.
In 1847, the descendants of Joseph Fry introduced the chocolate bar to English society. Melted cocoa butter was mixed with cocoa powder and sugar. The resulting paste could be pressed into a mold.
Other innovations were taking place at Cadbury’s Chocolate. For years, people had been extracting cocoa butter from chocolate in order to make powdered cocoa. But no one could squeeze all the fat from cocoa. Therefore, additives (like potato flour) were used to keep the powder, “powdery.” In 1866, the Cadbury’s were able to eliminate additives from their cocoa powder by discovering an improved method of extracting the natural cocoa butter. This innovation allowed the Quaker Cadbury’s to advertise, “Absolutely Pure: Therefore Best.”
Not only was the marketing strategy a success, the process provided the company with extra cocoa butter (a boon for their candy making operation).
As another feather in their cap, the Cadbury’s started the trend of boxed chocolate candies (achieving this distinction in 1868).
Milk chocolate was invented in 1875. This time, the credit goes to Nestle (who was not a Friend). Soon thereafter, the Quaker companies developed their own formulas for milk chocolate. Cadbury’s Dairy Milk chocolate bar became the company’s best seller by 1913. It remained king of the British chocolate bars for the following 75 years.
Although the brand names all survive, the chocolate empires of Fry, Cadbury and Rowntree are no longer under Quaker control. Fry’s and Cadbury’s merged in 1919. In 1969, the resulting company merged with Schweppes Ltd. Rowntree was purchased by Nestle in 1988.
The Cadbury company is worth special mention for its enlightened attitude toward employees. This Quaker-owned chocolate company was the first firm to grant its workers a 5-day work week. Also, sports facilities, medical facilities, schools, kitchens and community gardens were built for the employees.
In 1893, the Cadbury brothers purchased 120 acres near their factory (to help workers escape the slums of Birmingham). 144 cottages were built for Cadbury workers and for the public at large. By 1915, rates of death and infant mortality in the Cadbury development were half those of Birmingham as a whole.
LikeLike
What an interesting diversion!
It’s the sort of topic that reaches into many corners, but is very seldom thought about, much less raised.
But I dunno about:- ” chocolate…… they hoped to alleviate the social ills caused by alcohol.”
At the end of a hectic day, and before you get into all the evening chores, try relaxing with your feet up, eyes closed, playing a quiet bit of Mozart, and slurping on a block of exotic choccy washed down by sips of Cream Sherry.
(Are you turned on yet, Monica? 🙂 )
ps Come to think of it, I was doing chocolate BEFORE I ever tried alcohol, so perhaps it’s best to steer clear of chocolate, what?
LikeLike
In regards to “turning back to Christ for real”, we need our humility and love back. We need to end all hypocrisy that sadly, Christians these days are often labelled with. We can’t just keep blaming the “world” anymore. Am I the only one who finds it interesting that Jesus said that loving God and loving your neighbour as yourself completely fulfills the WHOLE Torah/ Law? If we got serious about that ourselves and teach others to do the same, maybe things can change for the better. I think it’s a start anyway.
LikeLike